E2 Question

[BusyBee604]

Because people are afraid of what they don't know and they're also afraid of going to the boat.

Not directed at you Oscar, but why would one join the NAVY to fly, if they were "afraid to go to the boat "? Any Naval Aviator could be tasked at some point or other... regardless of community, to go to the boat,

During 'nam when VA Pilots were being lost in great numbers, JOs & mid-grade O-3/O-4 experienced NAs were recruited from all communities (even, gasp... VPs), for a short course in a VA RAG (FRS), and sent directly to squadrons on the line, to keep combat units from losing readiness from Pilot/crew shortages. Back then, every SNA had been at least day carqualed prior to winging. And BTW, they performed admirably.

If one doesn't want to 'go to the boat', well there's always the USAF w/ hot jets, 12K' runways, drag chutes, and no Recovering LSO, screaming POWER... POWER... POWER... WAVEOFF!
BzB

 

[OscarMyers]

Not directed at you Oscar, but why would one join the NAVY to fly, if they were "afraid to go to the boat "? Any Naval Aviator could be tasked at some point or other... regardless of community, to go to the boat,

During 'nam when VA Pilots were being lost in great numbers, JOs & mid-grade O-3/O-4 experienced NAs were recruited from all communities (even, gasp... VPs), for a short course in a VA RAG (FRS), and sent directly to squadrons on the line, to keep combat units from losing readiness from Pilot/crew shortages. Back then, every SNA had been at least day carqualed prior to winging. And BTW, they performed admirably.

If one doesn't want to 'go to the boat', well there's always the USAF w/ hot jets, 12K' runways, drag chutes, and no Recovering LSO, screaming POWER... POWER... POWER... WAVEOFF!
BzB

I found my self wondering that on multiple occasions while I was in primary. Perhaps it was the lack of Tailhook representation at VT-10. I loved working on the flight deck and am even more stoked about getting to operate around the boat.

 

[utswimmer37]

I'm prepared to take my lashings for this one but do FO's have the ability to laterally transfer their role, as in after an initial sea tour do they ever decide, or have the ability, to go to another platform? Didn't know if the role lends itself to a more versatile role in aviation (or do they ever get shifted around by the Navy).

 

[LET73]

Not directed at you Oscar, but why would one join the NAVY to fly, if they were "afraid to go to the boat "? Any Naval Aviator could be tasked at some point or other... regardless of community, to go to the boat,

It's not just aviation. I know too many intel types who take pride in never having been on the boat. It's the Navy--exactly what service did they think they were joining?

 

[Gatordev]

Not directed at you Oscar, but why would one join the NAVY to fly, if they were "afraid to go to the boat "? Any Naval Aviator could be tasked at some point or other... regardless of community, to go to the boat,

I don't know if "afraid" is the right word, but I saw that quite often as a stud going through Primary. Folks with no previous Navy experience (unlike priors like you and webmaster, who did time underway) who just KNEW they wanted P-3s (or E-6s) so they didn't have to go to the boat. It certainly baffled me on their career choice, but whatever. I just chalked it up to exposure, having literally grown up on boats since I was 2 months old.

 

[CommodoreMid]

I'd say most people I know in VP didn't go that route in order to avoid the boat, rather the mission set and the chance to work with a big crew. I know that's why I did.

But I'm not complaining about per diem, sleeping in a real bed, and having a beer after I fly

 

[B.D. Drummond]

With all due respect to the VFA community, not everyone wants to spend 6 or more months on a "stinky" ship ( no offense to the excellent SWO community) to fly 1.2 hours a day even when some of which is very exciting. Look at the drop in those wishing to take the bonus and the low retention in that community.

When you fill out that dream sheet really know where you want to go and hope the needs of the Navy coincide.

And good luck!

 

[Crowbar]

For any SNFOs reading this, VT-4 is all NFOs right now, and they represent every Navy community except P-8s and Prowlers/Growlers. There's even a couple of Marine ECMOs over there. If you want to talk to one of them about a certain platform/community, let your class advisor know and they will probably send you over to see somebody. Don't be afraid to ask. Most people love talking about their communities and the sea stories seem to be a little juicier in a small group than in front of the whole squadron.

 

[robav8r]

With all due respect to the VFA community, not everyone wants to spend 6 or more months on a "stinky" ship ( no offense to the excellent SWO community) to fly 1.2 hours a day even when some of which is very exciting. Look at the drop in those wishing to take the bonus and the low retention in that community.

When you fill out that dream sheet really know where you want to go and hope the needs of the Navy coincide.

And good luck!

What is your experience on the "stinky" ship ??? And how in the wide world of sports do you equate dream sheets, 1.2 hr sorties and needs of the Navy with the bonus and retention?

 

[BusyBee604]

With all due respect to the VFA community, not everyone wants to spend 6 or more months on a "stinky" ship ( no offense to the excellent SWO community) to fly 1.2 hours a day even when some of which is very exciting.

Interesting observation. I cruised on 4 different carriers back in the day, older & less air-conditioned than the 'nuke' behemoths of today, never found one to be "stinky". Sounds like a localized cleaning/personal hygeine problem to me, or was it that one CVN where the entire toilet system went belly up?

As for the low fight time... yeah, I can agree it's a bummer, but fiscal restraints, plus high flight time airframes requiring major mods/repairs to extend service life, plus Navy emphasis on mandatory training regarding diversity, sensitivity, PC, sexual harassment, ARIs, DUIs, motorcycle/auto safety.... ad nauseum, all contribute to reduced flight time. This has been historically cyclic, BUT they are lengthy cycles, so the low flight time probably won't improve any time soon.

Look at the drop in those wishing to take the bonus and the low retention in that community.

If you think 6 month cruises, stinky ships, and low flight time is causing pilots to ignore hefty bonuses and bail early... I disagree. Back in the day, CV cruises ran 6-1o mos. routinely (and as stated in a recent TV ad "they didn't stink"!), there were NO incentive bonuses, and pilot retention was not a problem, even though the U.S. economy was much healthier than at present. The distractions noted above, plus the mass sackings of CO/XOs, and the other time consuming distractions are the major cause of end of obligation bailouts.

When you fill out that dream sheet really know where you want to go and hope the needs of the Navy coincide.

And good luck!

Amen to that. Ya' know, for a SNA/SNFO who is not enthralled with pointy-noses, swept wings & hi-mach'; enjoys carops/traps & lotsa' hours, but not living aboard; digs TAD $$$, loves exotic foreign Cities and other mysterious places where big-assed, stinky ships, and hordes of Sailors don't go... THEN C-2 "Greyhounds" are the way to go. As an experienced COD driver (C-1A), I can tell you that everyone on the boat LOVES the crews that bring the mail and parts (except the CO & the 'Boss' in PriFly when you bolter & dork up their recovery)!
BzB

 

[B.D. Drummond]

This isn't the Navy of 40 years ago. B your summary of changed conditions impact morale and retention. As far as my comment on the dream sheet, have an idea what the future might hold once the bloom is off the rose. Sorry Robo, hope you see what I meant. And I'm glad you and the B were on aromatic vessels.

 

[Uncle Fester]

...VT-4 is all NFOs right now...

How's that work, anyway? I'm kinda vaguely aware of the changes to the SNFO pipeline and VT-4's revival, but I don't know the particulars.

 

[BusyBee604]

This isn't the Navy of 40 years ago.

B.D., believe me, no one knows that better than I. Yes, I left 40 years ago, but I didn't go into a coma. Having a Son in Naval Aviation, recently retired as an O-5, I kept up with the changes... people changed, leadership changed, platforms changed, and tailhook culture has changed. For the better? Mixed reviews on that; however, other than nuke propulsion, CV ops & deployment frequency remains much the same.

B your summary of changed conditions impact morale and retention.

That was my point, so we agree there.

As far as my comment on the dream sheet, have an idea what the future might hold once the bloom is off the rose. Sorry Robo, hope you see what I meant. And I'm glad you and the B were on aromatic vessels.

Although two generations apart, basically I think we're in agreement. I hope your future ships are also aromatic!
BzB

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Interesting observation. I cruised on 4 different carriers back in the day, older & less air-conditioned than the 'nuke' behemoths of today, never found one to be "stinky". Sounds like a localized cleaning/personal hygeine problem to me, or was it that one CVN where the entire toilet system went belly up?

As for the low fight time... yeah, I can agree it's a bummer, but fiscal restraints, plus high flight time airframes requiring major mods/repairs to extend service life, plus Navy emphasis on mandatory training regarding diversity, sensitivity, PC, sexual harassment, ARIs, DUIs, motorcycle/auto safety.... ad nauseum, all contribute to reduced flight time. This has been historically cyclic, BUT they are lengthy cycles, so the low flight time probably won't improve any time soon.

If you think 6 month cruises, stinky ships, and low flight time is causing pilots to ignore hefty bonuses and bail early... I disagree. Back in the day, CV cruises ran 6-1o mos. routinely (and as stated in a recent TV ad "they didn't stink"!), there were NO incentive bonuses, and pilot retention was not a problem, even though the U.S. economy was much healthier than at present. The distractions noted above, plus the mass sackings of CO/XOs, and the other time consuming distractions are the major cause of end of obligation bailouts.

Amen to that. Ya' know, for a SNA/SNFO who is not enthralled with pointy-noses, swept wings & hi-mach'; enjoys carops/traps & lotsa' hours, but not living aboard; digs TAD $$$, loves exotic foreign Cities and other mysterious places where big-assed, stinky ships, and hordes of Sailors don't go... THEN C-2 "Greyhounds" are the way to go. As an experienced COD driver (C-1A), I can tell you that everyone on the boat LOVES the crews that bring the mail and parts (except the CO & the 'Boss' in PriFly when you bolter & dork up their recovery)!
BzB

Interesting issue with the nukes (68 class), the airconditioning requirements were woefully underestimated so going into area's like the persian gulf that has a high seawater injection temperature reduced the efficiency and caused many breakdowns, my cruises in 91 and 93 often saw enlisted berthing temps in the 90's, what was really incredible that at one point we actually had stay times in berthing due to the heat. It took a few years but shipalts added airconditioning units and subsequent deployments were much better.

The high SW injection temp was also an issue for other equipment as well, the SY planners and such said the 68 class had equipment installed based on operation in coldwater such as North Atlantic/Pacific so the equipment failed as it was not used to those temps, all the manuals for air compressor in the engineroom talked about maximum designed SW injection temp of around 60 degrees.

 

[B.D. Drummond]

Nuff said!