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E-2 Weapons School

Hey all,

Just out of curiosity, is there a preferred weapons school for the VAW community? I know that there is the TOPGUN Controller Syllabus and CAEWWS, but I couldn't find a whole lot on either school outside of courses offered/a general description of the schools and their objective.
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Hey all,

Just out of curiosity, is there a preferred weapons school for the VAW community? I know that there is the TOPGUN Controller Syllabus and CAEWWS, but I couldn't find a whole lot on either school outside of courses offered/a general description of the schools and their objective.
How do you mean by 'preferred'?
 
Is one better for career advancement than the other one or do both get you to WTI and they look the same on paper? I know TOPGUN is mostly focused on air-to-air, and CAEWWS covers numerous courses, namely AMCC. Would CAEWWS be favored because it covers more of the VAW missions or am I comparing apples and oranges WRT TOPGUN (Controller Syllabus) and CAEWWS?
 

MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
I think you are comparing apples to oranges. The two courses aren't mutually exclusive........most CAEWWS grads also got a TOPGUN AIC patch during their first tour. Different syllabus, purpose, and end state, as well as a completely different NAWDC department.
 

Uncle Fester

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Super Moderator
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Neither really has any impact on your career prospects. There's a dozen reasons why you might get tapped to go, or not, to a weapons school that have nothing to do with you. And pilots and FOs are lumped together for promotion/screen boards and E-2 pilots go to AMCC but not TG.

The two courses aren't mutually exclusive........most CAEWWS grads also got a TOPGUN AIC patch during their first tour.
Really? When I was in the fleet it was unusual to be dual-patched. There was only one in my last squadron. TG is such a long course (thus also expensive) that the squadrons usually didn't send guys unless they really had to.
 

cfam

A pilot is a pilot. An NFO is something else.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Neither really has any impact on your career prospects. There's a dozen reasons why you might get tapped to go, or not, to a weapons school that have nothing to do with you. And pilots and FOs are lumped together for promotion/screen boards and E-2 pilots go to AMCC but not TG.



Really? When I was in the fleet it was unusual to be dual-patched. There was only one in my last squadron. TG is such a long course (thus also expensive) that the squadrons usually didn't send guys unless they really had to.
Not sure how common it is now, but a decent amount of the CAEWWS staff is dual-patched. We did an integration event with the current HEWTI class today, and it looked like a 50/50 split between AIC patch wearers and non patch wearers. I'll ask tomorrow during our next event.
 

MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
I should caveat that by saying that the only CAEWWS patches I knew were at the weapon school. Most of them had previously received TOPGUN AIC patches. Mileage may vary across the fleet.
 

Uncle Fester

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Oh, if you mean dual-patched CAEWWS staff, that's not that surprising. I thought you meant in a typical squadron.
 

cfam

A pilot is a pilot. An NFO is something else.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I asked a couple of the guys on CAEWWS staff, and they said it's less unusual to have dual patched fleet guys than it used to be. From what they / you were saying, I gather it was extremely uncommon in the past. From their perspective, squadrons are getting more aggressive about pushing JOs through the AIC course.

The current CAEWWS class has 3 TG AIC patches out of 8 total students, which they said is pretty typical.
 

Uncle Fester

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Super Moderator
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I asked a couple of the guys on CAEWWS staff, and they said it's less unusual to have dual patched fleet guys than it used to be. From what they / you were saying, I gather it was extremely uncommon in the past. From their perspective, squadrons are getting more aggressive about pushing JOs through the AIC course.

The current CAEWWS class has 3 TG AIC patches out of 8 total students, which they said is pretty typical.
Interesting. Wonder what drove that change. 10+ years ago the idea was that you really just needed one or two Topgun AICs in the squadron as fighter tactics SMEs, and they would drive AIC training and refreshers for the rest of the squadron. So your Super JO WTI, assuming you had one, and maybe one other guy at any one time. And I gathered that was in keeping with the original intent of TG - train the trainers.

Apparently now even Shoes can do it....
 

Red2

E-2 NFO. WTI. DH.
None
AMCC went away a few years ago. Level 4's are now produced in house with assistance from the Weapons Schools in Mugu and Norfolk. The only weapons school courses open to first sea tour NFO's is TOPGUN controller course and MAWTS. The duel patches you see are Level 5's who went to TOPGUN during their squadron tour and picked up WTI orders for their shore tour. The course cfam mentioned is only for producing Level 5's, and has had SWO's go through it for a number of years. Even a few USAF AWACS, JSTARS and CRC guys have graduated. There is typically also a Brit on staff as well. The article Fester mentions is notable since it looks like they are also grads of the new SWO weapons school in PT Loma.
 

SynixMan

Staff Life
pilot
Contributor
^^ That tracks with what I saw in my air wing. Hot runner first tour Hummer Moles would go to Top Gun Contoller course. WTI (Top Dome?) would come in conjunction with shore orders. I think every community is doing that now (WTI orders with commensurate course on the front end). In the case of VAW, seems like Top Gun Controller is a way for COs to deep select their favorites.
 
What course at MAWTS would Hummer FO's take? Do they have a controller syllabus similar to TG or do they graduate as WTI's and become SME's in Marine Aviaiton?
 

Red2

E-2 NFO. WTI. DH.
None
C2 course. Same as Marine DASC. Does not award a WTI designation but are considered squadron SME in TAC C2.
 
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