E-2/C-2 Life?

[Max the Mad Russian]

Another "here we go again", uh?
The difference between the stick and yoke control column on a carrier landing. Is it important thing? Say, landing old good S-3A with doubled controls didn't take the opposite hand motorics habits: no matter port or starboard chair, you have the stick in a right hand and throttles in left one. But yoke? Landing E-2/C-2 being in a left chair, you grab the left horn of yoke by left hand and the throttles in right hand, right? If you are in a starboard chair, it's oppositely - you're jerking the right horn of a yoke by right hand. That's completely different movements. Is this that basis for statement that to fly C-2 is a hard job?

Thanks in advance

 

[Uncle Fester]

Another "here we go again", uh?
The difference between the stick and yoke control column on a carrier landing. Is it important thing? Say, landing old good S-3A with doubled controls didn't take the opposite hand motorics habits: no matter port or starboard chair, you have the stick in a right hand and throttles in left one. But yoke? Landing E-2/C-2 being in a left chair, you grab the left horn of yoke by left hand and the throttles in right hand, right? If you are in a starboard chair, it's oppositely - you're jerking the right horn of a yoke by right hand. That's completely different movements. Is this that basis for statement that to fly C-2 is a hard job?

Thanks in advance

You don't do carrier landings from the right seat.

 

[ChuckMK23]

You don't do carrier landings from the right seat.

ever?

Is there not a combat contingency scenario that needs to be practiced?

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

You don't do carrier landings from the right seat.

How could it be? You mean a pilot in the left seat (aircraft commander, right?) who's unable to catch a wire whatever the reason is unheard of, otherwise all crew of unable to air refueling aircraft should accept the task of reaching the divert airfield given qualified co-pilot among them?

 

[Uncle Fester]

ever?

Is there not a combat contingency scenario that needs to be practiced?

Nope. It's a matter of sight picture to the Ball, among other things. If for whatever reason the guy in the left seat can't get it done, you do a seat swap. If he keels over, Airplane!-style, then you haul him to the back, seat swap with the CP, and one of the FOs will sit in the right seat.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Yes NavAir is cool crowd, to say the least Does C-2 community get this practice too?

 

[zippy]

How could it be? You mean a pilot in the left seat (aircraft commander, right?) who's unable to catch a wire whatever the reason is unheard of, otherwise all crew of unable to air refueling aircraft should accept the task of reaching the divert airfield given qualified co-pilot among them?

It's not Always the aircraft commander in the left seat...

 

[Uncle Fester]

How could it be? You mean a pilot in the left seat (aircraft commander, right?) who's unable to catch a wire whatever the reason is unheard of, otherwise all crew of unable to air refueling aircraft should accept the task of reaching the divert airfield given qualified co-pilot among them?

Aircraft Commander =/= Pilot at the Controls. AC (CAPC in E-2s) is a qualification, achieved once you have enough hours in the plane and the CO feels comfortable with you having responsibility for the aircraft. It's very common for the AC to be sitting right seat, with a newer pilot at the controls in the left seat, so the new guy can get more experience and traps at the Boat, under the AC's supervision. They're both fully qualified to bring the plane aboard, or divert to a shore field if necessary.

One dark and sweaty night over the Gulf, our plane's left motor shit itself on the way back to the Boat. Very, very new guy JG was in the left seat, with a fairly experienced LT AC in the right. Night, single engine, below single-engine divert range, and hot/humid to boot - AC decided to seat swap for the trap.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Thank you Uncle Fester, very informative as usually. I've asked by email my fellow retired Bear pilot about something similar here, but will wait for awhile as he lives five hours to the east from me. As far as I know no, the plane commander here is always left with no swap, and I doubt this is possible in Backfire front cockpit, very tied. Maybe on Bears yes. Will write later. And of course this has nothing common with carrier landing. Interesting if the French Navy which operates E-2s too maintains the same approach.
In any case, if all E-2 and possibly C-2 carrier traps are from the left seat, the question answered, thank you. One set of motions and gesture - left hand at yoke and right one on throttles, it explains all. Thanks again.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

It's not Always the aircraft commander in the left seat...

Suppose in MRPA aircraft commander quite can be NFO. At least in RAF when they operated Nimrods that could be the case, as far as I know. Not only TACCO job, the full responsibility for an airplane, mission and crew.

 

[zippy]

Suppose in MRPA aircraft commander quite can be NFO. At least in RAF when they operated Nimrods that could be the case, as far as I know. Not only TACCO job, the full responsibility for an airplane, mission and crew.

Not that, but junior pilots have to land to keep proficiency- aka the aircraft commander (not to be confused with mission commander) could be in the right seat being the pilot monitoring while the junior pilot is flying.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Not that, but junior pilots have to land to keep proficiency- aka the aircraft commander (not to be confused with mission commander) could be in the right seat being the pilot monitoring while the junior pilot is flying.

Got it, thanks. Here too, received an answer - yes, the Bear AC could swap with the CP for any reason on his order. From time to time, suddenly during preflight brief the commanding General in flying suit could appear and order an AC or CP to stay ground for this sortie, replacing him in any seat - just to evaluate the pilot who rests.

 

[picklesuit]

Got it, thanks. Here too, received an answer - yes, the Bear AC could swap with the CP for any reason on his order. From time to time, suddenly during preflight brief the commanding General in flying suit could appear and order an AC or CP to stay ground for this sortie, replacing him in any seat - just to evaluate the pilot who rests.

P-3's could land from either seat, you just learned to fly ambidextrously. I was better from the left seat myself, I think it was the ability to trim and move the power levers a little more smoothly with my right hand.

And to answer your earlier question, Mission Commander can be either PPC or TACCO, it's whoever the CO says it will be on the flight schedule.

 

[kmac]

As Uncle Fester mentioned above, the sight picture is the biggest difference. When I'm flying from the right (at the field), I still ask the guy in the left to verify my nose alignment.

Since Aircraft Commander is a qual and not a crew seat, it is usually the case that when two ACs are flying together, the guy who actually signs for the aircraft sits in the right while the other guy sits in the left and is the pilot at the controls. I'm talking about a normal field flight and not a flight to the boat.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

P-3's could land from either seat, you just learned to fly ambidextrously. I was better from the left seat myself, I think it was the ability to trim and move the power levers a little more smoothly with my right hand.

And to answer your earlier question, Mission Commander can be either PPC or TACCO, it's whoever the CO says it will be on the flight schedule.

Thanks a lot. My fellow Bear driver wrote that you can always understand while waiting in debrief room who played which role in cockpit (AC or CP) by noting who of two pilots wears wrist watches on the right hand - he was in the right seat and got the yoke by right hand, so he doesn't have to leave throttles free just to see the watches on regular left-hand position. At least he told me that and maybe I understood it correctly.
And yes, now I know the difference about Mission Commander, thanks