Drug Boat Strike

[Flash]

The Houthis attacked the U.S. after we intervened.

The conflict with the Huthis and their antecedents long precedes the latest flare up, and we did not fire the first shots in this latest round.

This boils down to whether Flash believes the purpose of the mission is 'right' or 'wrong.' Which is supposed to be determined by Congress, but has been punted to the President as of 2001.

You can make smart ass comments but there is a very lengthy legal history that says drug smugglers have not been considered a threat that justifies deadly force as a first option. Given that the current administration has stretched legal bounds in many areas there is good reason to be concerned about the legal justification used, which as far as I know is still classified and has not been seen or reviewed by anyone outside the administration.

One thing that I haven't seen so far in this thread is just how effective these strikes really are, or if this is some part of a longer-term or larger strategy. The first part may not be clear for quite a while and the second isn't really clear at all yet. Incoherent is a term that comes to mind.

 

[Spekkio]

You can make smart ass comments but there is a very lengthy legal history that says drug smugglers have not been considered a threat that justifies deadly force as a first option. Given that the current administration has stretched legal bounds in many areas there is good reason to be concerned about the legal justification used, which as far as I know is still classified and has not been seen or reviewed by anyone outside the administration.

The sarcastic comment wasn't directed at just you in particular (although I can understand why you would think that), but that generally the argument comes down to whether an individual thinks it's right or wrong because Congress hasn't voted on it.

The drug smugglers are only one leg or arm of a much broader organization that has gained significant international economic and government influence. They are more influential than Al Qaida or ISIS.

TCOs are like the coal power plant that is killing everyone slowly while Al Qaida was the nuclear meltdown that galvanized public reaction in one sudden event.

One thing that I haven't seen so far in this thread is just how effective these strikes really are, or if this is some part of a longer-term or larger strategy. The first part may not be clear for quite a while and the second isn't really clear at all yet. Incoherent is a term that comes to mind.

That's a very valid criticism. One I agree with, and much more grounded than gnashing teeth over legalese.

 

[taxi1]

blowing up a hostile opponents financial center of gravity which is a form of poison that kills tens of thousands of US citizens.

Al Qaeda and Houthi members don’t land on U.S. shores to sell products to Americans willing to buy them.

If we really care about the US Citizens, the Sackler Family should be the Ace of Spades in the card deck.

Let the Coast Guard do the anti-drug mission. If this is really about going to war with Venezuela, take it to congress for approval first.

 

[123412131]

One thing that I haven't seen so far in this thread is just how effective these strikes really are, or if this is some part of a longer-term or larger strategy. The first part may not be clear for quite a while and the second isn't really clear at all yet. Incoherent is a term that comes to mind.

As far as reducing the drug trade to the United States? We already know it's not effective at all. This is political posturing to get Maduro to resign, not to actually reduce drugs. Only about 10% of cocaine flows through Venezuela and the majority of that comes in on planes. The speedboats we're currently blowing up are bound for the Caribbean or Suriname to meet up with larger ships enroute to Europe, as with the now infamous double-tap boat.

 

[number9]

Al Qaeda and Houthi members don’t land on U.S. shores to sell products to Americans willing to buy them.

If we really care about the US Citizens, the Sackler Family should be the Ace of Spades in the card deck.

Let the Coast Guard do the anti-drug mission. If this is really about going to war with Venezuela, take it to congress for approval first.

If we were serious about the war on drugs, why did we pardon the former President of Honduras? It's so bizarre.

 

[Lawman]

The is a huge legal difference between a terrorist who intends to attack the United States and a drug smuggler heading...somewhere, with their product. You can debate about the philosophical differences between a terrorist and a drug smuggler but legally there is still a very significant legal distinction, for very good reason.

I can attack an unarmed oil tanker truck because of the financial means that provides the foreign terrorist group. Same as we could target and destroy/kill other non threatening capabilities or persons that provided for the support of the whole. That’s a historic precedent, and just because that group was publicly unpopular it draws no attention from the good folks at home or the media.

These drug boats are not simply drug boats, they are means to pressure a center of gravity for a non state actor. They finance the operations and therefore outcomes of a now named terrorist entities to include in the region Hezbollah , and in the process contribute to the death of tens of thousands of our citizens in the process and general destabilization of partner nations and interests z Same reason we can execute authorities to isolate and freeze assets now that they are named terror group because of the authorities granted in that.

Sorry but when you get the briefings from places like JtF-North on what the day to day of these groups is and contrast them with the terrorist whack a mole we’ve been at in other places, it’s pretty moral to be going after them across the whole of methods at our disposal. And yes that still includes all the authorities of law enforcement running under separate titles of USC.

 

[Flash]

These drug boats are not simply drug boats, they are means to pressure a center of gravity for a non state actor. They finance the operations and therefore outcomes of a now named terrorist entities to include in the region Hezbollah , and in the process contribute to the death of tens of thousands of our citizens in the process and general destabilization of partner nations and interests z Same reason we can execute authorities to isolate and freeze assets now that they are named terror group because of the authorities granted in that.

You start pulling that thread and you get to justifying killing A LOT of people as a first option for breaking the law.

Sorry but when you get the briefings from places like JtF-North on what the day to day of these groups is and contrast them with the terrorist whack a mole we’ve been at in other places, it’s pretty moral to be going after them across the whole of methods at our disposal. And yes that still includes all the authorities of law enforcement running under separate titles of USC.

Don't assume you are the only one on this board who is knowledgeable about the drug trafficking, and that those that are agree with you.

 

[number9]

There are more holes in these arguments in favor (or in legal support) of these boat strikes than there are holes in the boats themselves.