Drug Boat Strike

[Brett327]

As news is breaking of a 3rd boat being sunk, an interesting article from Foreign Affairs.

The Wrong Way to Fight the Cartels

Trump risks repeating the mistakes of the “War on Terror”.

www.foreignaffairs.com

On a sidenote, wonder if the Navy could make use of the LCS’s in this area rather than retire them?

I know the LCS can accommodate a -60, but are they regularly deploying with an actual helo det, or is that more of a contingency capability?

 

[Swanee]

I did a 6 month deployment there circa 1995, split between Panama and Soto Cano, Honduras. Roosy was a great place to deploy.

This song was on continuous loop the entire time...

We christened the little island off the all hands beach as AO Island, so no trespassing w/o rendering proper IYAOYAS honors. Easy SCUBA diving, 24 ft sailboat rentals at the marina, and great liberty. One of our AMEs was like a 24 year old virgin, so we all took him to the brothel... Black Angus, and got him laid. Pretty funny experience, as he emerged about 15 minutes later with a big grin on his face. Good times.

I was born a half generation too late!

 

[MIDNJAC]

I did a 6 month deployment there circa 1995, split between Panama and Soto Cano, Honduras. Roosy was a great place to deploy.

I participated in a high school student debate that year. It was about Clinton's push to put a gas pipeline through Afghanistan. And I guess the Taliban was a point of friction. I bet you'd have been awe struck at our collective talking points

(you sir are old lol)

 

[sickboy]

I know the LCS can accommodate a -60, but are they regularly deploying with an actual helo det, or is that more of a contingency capability?

I can’t say that all LCS deployments have a det on them, but it’s not unusual at all to deploy on an LCS as an HSM guy. However the bulk of our dets are still on DDG/CGs

 

[Brett327]

I participated in a high school student debate that year. It was about Clinton's push to put a gas pipeline through Afghanistan. And I guess the Taliban was a point of friction. I bet you'd have been awe struck at our collective talking points

(you sir are old lol)

Did you do Cross-Ex debate?

 

[MIDNJAC]

Did you do Cross-Ex debate?

I didn't recall that term, but after googling, yes, that is what we did

 

[Spekkio]

I understand my sea story above is different than what seems to be happening now in the Carribean where it's a directed kill order. But again, I offer it as perspective on how we've historically interdicted these cases under a LE umbrella, utilizing the "Can I? May I? Should I?" technique while also meeting ROE.

I appreciate the anecdote and perspective, but I think that this part hits the nail on the head: we've decided to break from tradition and designate TCOs as terrorist organizations. Which means that ops against drug boats should look more like strikes on Al Qaida / ISIS operatives than drug interdiction in the past.

Under the ROE umbrella, it's a question of whether you had sufficient PID to engage, and not the degree of threat they personally presented against you. "Designate, and treat as hostile..." In your anecdote, that would depend on whether the orders include positive verification of drug presence to verify target validity. And sometimes, that 'verification' will come from an intel community saying 'they have drugs, trust me' (I can't tell you why SAP SAP SAP) and later turn out to be wrong.

When John Q. Public hears drug interdiction, they think LEO. The IO campaign is lacking, but that's what happens when the POTUS decides he'll constantly spar with the press.

 

[taxi1]

Black Angus

Was that her name?

 

[Brett327]

Was that her name?

The name of the establishment was, colloquially speaking, The Black Anus.

 

[Gatordev]

but I think that this part hits the nail on the head: we've decided to break from tradition and designate TCOs as terrorist organizations. Which means that ops against drug boats should look more like strikes on Al Qaida / ISIS operatives than drug interdiction in the past.

Overall, I think we're in agreement. My anecdote wasn't meant to counter your points, just illuminate some additional points.

When John Q. Public hears drug interdiction, they think LEO. The IO campaign is lacking, but that's what happens when the POTUS decides he'll constantly spar with the press.

Which I'd argue (and have been) is the single-biggest problem here. This isn't a CNT op, it's an operation against a (or several) designated terror organization. So let's call it that and not pretend it's about the drug runners. They're just the foot soldier of the organization. An over-simplification, but you get my point.

In your anecdote, that would depend on whether the orders include positive verification of drug presence to verify target validity. And sometimes, that 'verification' will come from an intel community saying 'they have drugs, trust me' (I can't tell you why SAP SAP SAP) and later turn out to be wrong.

If it's a LE operation, then any kind of positive verification or intel cuing doesn't apply to Go-Fasts. There's actually a very specific order (maybe it's a law, but it's been too long and I can't remember) that classifies GFs as unique compared to all of the other smuggling operations. They later added SPSS under that same order, although interdiction of them requires a different TTP. So at the end of the day, if a GF is spotted, TACON is immediately shifted to District 11 or District 7 and then interdiction begins utilizing whatever asset happens to be available and on scene (which might not be a shooter).