exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
The DEA officer I saw a few times at career fairs talked about it was essentially utilizing the manpower they had to get the really bad drugs, not enough people to do it all.
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Drug Boat Strike
- Thread starter Griz882
- Start date
Well to their credit, that war might not even require a real deployment.......US port calls. Maybe just a tanker bridge from NAS Key West, as a forward staging point......my idle mind runs wild with this one
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
Yea I figured I wasn't going to find internal policy memos that told officers not to waste bandwidth on Marijuana enforcement. One of the tough parts about measuring crime rates is that arrest rates can vary based on political policy, and voters don't want to believe their marijuana logistics chain includes people who brutally rape and kill women so politicians take a hear no evil, see no evil approach.
Kind of like when police officers decide they won't pull anyone over unless they're doing 80+ in a 65. Or in the San Diego area, they won't pull you over unless you're weaving traffic.
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Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
"War crimes" are only a means to punish the senior military and political leadership of the loser.
I've always been uncomfortable with the idea of TLAM strike for the reasons you outline. We launch missile, it blows something / someone up at some location and we all hope we did the right thing.
I think I get your point, but I'd offer just because you've met ROE doesn't mean you have to execute it. I'll expand on that idea in a sec, but to do so once again takes us back to the question of whether these strikes are under Use of Force doctrine (ie, a LE action) or under AUMF.
Under Use of Force, and specifically as it applies to CNT ops when conducting maritime AUF, you can move through the continuum towards End Game once given permission. The individual crew moves through the continuum at their discretion based on the reaction of the contact of interest. Even if the COI is non-compliant, it doesn't require the crew to move all the way to End Game in a linear fashion. Why would that happen? Well...
I was on a case where we intercepted and started the AUF process. It met all of the check boxes (unflagged, non-compliant, high speed Panga, more than one engine, containers in the hold, etc). We were given authorization for End Game and started working through the card. I wasn't the HAC, but I was on the side with the guns so I had the equivalent of Release Consent. As we got to the point where we were going to directly target the vessel, I told them to hold fire and we chatted back and forth with MOM about how immediately shooting may not be the right call since we had time and distance on our side. What I was seeing onboard definitely indicated they were dirty, but didn't look like contraband.
After another few seconds the vessel played their game of red light/green light, stopping and then going before finally stopping. After they ditched their SSE over the side, they killed the engines and waited for MOM, which was a very smart move on their part.
As it turned out, no contraband (other than some weed and maybe a bump for themselves). And eventually, off they went. Had we continued to shoot, we would have been absolutely in our right to do so, but we also would have then been hosting these clowns on the ship instead of detaining them. I have no idea if they would have received a Cadillac chit for the damage...something I always wondered about.
I understand my sea story above is different than what seems to be happening now in the Carribean where it's a directed kill order. But again, I offer it as perspective on how we've historically interdicted these cases under a LE umbrella, utilizing the "Can I? May I? Should I?" technique while also meeting ROE.
One last thought...that Panga in the second strike looked totally dirty as well. What I find interesting is that it was DIW when hit, which wouldn't fly under AUF. It also had one engine up, which usually indicates it's broken and makes them much easier to intercept before they reach a LSV, assuming you have an asset nearby that can get to it...which is a big if, depending on the AOR.
I haven't seen any reporting saying that these strikes were 'haphazard', but I do think there since we are using deadly force as a first option instead of a last one as we have in the past the burden of proof now is higher to prove that these targeted vessels are in fact drug smugglers and from a particular group as has been publicly claimed. Right now there is little to no proof or credibility to the claims other than 'trust us', which the press and some of the public are wary of...for good reason.
There are several avenues of communication and diplomacy occurring between the US and VZ.
If you are talking about deadly force first, as an individual event, I agree with you.
If referring to the total drugs from VZ issue, than deadly force was not the first action.
Rosey Roads is back open. I'm sure the old guys will come regale us of the glory days!
But does it rise to the level of using military directly striking smugglers with deadly force? It has before when folks have openly threatened the US itself, like Noriega, but not smuggling networks who don't pose an immediate threat IIRC.
You're not wrong here. But I'll offer that those "a lack of friendlies in the area confirms any presence is enemy" and shooting at sigint hits are TTPs for a different type of conflict than what we're doing in the Caribbean.
In one case we have enemy combatants. In the other we have citizens of a different (not really friendly, but not in open conflict) nation breaking the law.
So what we're seeing in the Caribbean is more akin to what we've done over the last 25 years wrt anti-weapons, money, and drug smuggling ops in the Middle East than what war may look like in the Pacific.
Chicken
Jose’s on base was mandatory for lunch.
Not the problem for the trigger man, but a good question for those above him.
