• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

Drinking and driving.

^Absolutely 100% not true...although it is a common misconception. Military will wait for civilians to adjudicate, and you may even get out of going to mast, but you can damn sure bet PERS is gonna get a message that you were arrested for DUI. After that message goes out,you've got about 10 months before they decide whether or not to make you show cause for retention...even if you beat the charges.

Don't fucking drink and drive.
 
wlawr005 said:
^Absolutely 100% not true...although it is a common misconception. Military will wait for civilians to adjudicate, and you may even get out of going to mast, but you can damn sure bet PERS is gonna get a message that you were arrested for DUI. After that message goes out,you've got about 10 months before they decide whether or not to make you show cause for retention...even if you beat the charges.

Don't fucking drink and drive.
Click to expand...
Whats not "true"? There are two sides. Legal charges and administrative. I was discussing Region, specifically JAG prosecution and whether they would recommend or pursue charges from a command. General rule is they won't pursue charges if it happened off base. Ie CO may get a call from region saying sure submit charges but we don't recommend it and here's why. As always there are exceptions to the rule. In your scenario of military waiting on the town. If the prosecutor out in town dismisses and the command says oh no! We gotta get him on these charges. Well, I would bet pretty good odds that if the sailor or officer being charged was smart and got a lawyer and requested a courts martial, the dismissal info/community service/whatever from out in town would cause region to strongly recommend to the command that the case WOULDNT be worth pursuing. Talking in generalities here but I basically handled legal cases across my entire career in one form or another. But hey, only my two cents, I am a retiree bum, what do I know?

Administrative is a completely different situation. Message will be sent, PERS notified, DAPA involvement and impact to FITREP or eval as the case may be along the proscribed timelines. But none of it can be acted on until either the town or on base handles the charges. If the case is dismissed or the service member won at trial the administrative actions are no longer defensible and the service member can appeal/seek recourse. I agree there are admin timelines listed in MILPERSMAN, but commands can't get ahead of themselves if someone isn't found guilty of DUI on or off base.
And in many locales the town/local PD will not share the info needed to pursue charges on base. Hawaii was infamous for not providing info to commands, only the basic details from the liaison office and blotter entries. Not saying there aren't other sneaky ways to get the police reports, bac results etc from out in town ;)

Cheers

John
 
Last edited:
You're missing the point. The base cops are gonna pull you over and then call the civilian cops to come arrest you. Then you have to deal with both sides of the situation.
 
webmaster said:
But none of it can be acted on until either the town or on base handles the charges. If the case is dismissed or the service member won at trial the administrative actions are no longer defensible and the service member can appeal/seek recourse. I agree there are admin timelines listed in MILPERSMAN, but commands can't get ahead of themselves if someone isn't found guilty of DUI on or off base.
Click to expand...

Interesting difference in service policy... the AF is pretty eager to hammer with Art 15s etc even if the DUI charges are dropped/not guilty/etc off base.
 
magnetfreezer said:
Interesting difference in service policy... the AF is pretty eager to hammer with Art 15s etc even if the DUI charges are dropped/not guilty/etc off base.
Click to expand...
If the prosecutor out in town dropped charges there is a pretty good chance that there isn't enough in the police report, field sobriety test or BAC testing to support a case. Speaking in generalities here, or maybe the service member had a slick lawyer that is buds with the prosecutor and that $4000 spent in lawyer fees helped get his case dropped due to the caseload. Or maybe the charges were lowered in a plea agreement to wreck less driving without DUI listed. There are so many ways for the scenario to play out.

So let's say it gets dropped by out in town, and command wants to push to hammer them like you said. You mention UCMJ article 15, non judicial punishment, the requirements for evidence are much much lower and commensurately so are the punishments. But the command just wants to find them guilty and hammer them and process. This is where the ini informed service member gets into trouble and agrees to NJP when maybe their best legal advice was to pursue courts martial where the rules of evidence change? It's not a one size fits all description here but I have had the above scenario happen with a sailor and my command wanted to pursue NJP. But we didn't have enough to win a court martial case. Region advised us of that.

Commands, and certain COs I have found are eager to push NJP and maybe not meet the rqmts of guilt that would be required at court martial. That's where it can get interesting and if a service member appeals and there is an unfavorable pattern of NJP at the command when you review the unit punishment book, well there may be grounds for an appeal to be approved. That can come into play during command inspections and maybe an IG visit when those types of details are looked at. Or maybe during a visit post climate survey and their is a perception from the command personnel that NJP isn't handled fairly (example only certain people get NJP, favoritism, etc).

Morale of the story. Don't fucking drink and drive. And always get legal advice if you get into trouble. Lawyer up! And definitely don't get advice from a sea lawyer crowd.
 
wlawr005 said:
You're missing the point. The base cops are gonna pull you over and then call the civilian cops to come arrest you. Then you have to deal with both sides of the situation.
Click to expand...
i didn't miss the point. You declared my post 100% not true and I explained my post how informal policy may effect prosecution on and off base. I would hazard to guess that you are not completely familiar with how the UCMJ or state laws operate and are posting what you have heard or observed. I am speaking from experience worky multiple prosecution cases (in addition to DUI) and working through the legal and administrative system to process charges. There are informal policies behind the scenes both on and off base that govern which are pursued based on evidence and circumstances.

You state "most bases have agreements with local law enforcement" to come get you if you get a DUI on base. Now your discussing jurisdiction agreements, same way that a base cop can pull you over outside the front gate. How large are most bases that you are referring to? Smaller bases may utilize the facilities from out in town. Large bases have the facilities to fully process the individual. I am not denying that there may be local base commanders that are working to bring multiple avenues of prosecution against service members. Heck I've been on two bases that had base cops camping out outside the Oclub when we still had them gleefully targeting officers. Base commanders meeting helped get rid of that and find a better solution (BOQ rooms set aside for those too intoxicated to drive etc). At larger bases there are even more collaborative coordination efforts with liaisons positions and information sharing. But I would posit from my experience (some recent) that not all bases have the townies come get you from on base if you get a DUI. As always situation dependent.

But my main point and my posts have been how big navy can process DUI charges. It doesn't matter if it happened on or off base (your scenario is moot), the command can pursue via the UCMJ NJP or higher as long as you think you have the evidence and your command wants to pursue it. I personally would prefer for it to be handled on base, get a blood draw or urine sample for bac level etc through the military resources on base etc. depending on locale, if townies takeover you (the command) may not even get access to the final police report! Unless the service member is stupid enough to give a copy to the command they may not even have the evidence necessary to pursue! And yes I have had service members willingly give statements or paperwork that can be used against them to military officials. Once again get legal advice first.

If you are over the BAC legal limit on or off base you are going to have a hard time and one or both sidea of the legal system (local or UCMJ) will prosecute you. If it's just a field sobriety test failure and below BAC likits a good lawyer can probably get you off with a charge reduction or dropped charges out in town. On base it just depends on the evidence and if the service member wants to roll the dice that the command doesn't have enough evidence to support a court martial case.

Administrative actions such as driving privileges on or off base can be happening seperatley and of course have different levels of evidence.
 
Last edited:
Whitefoot said:
^^^^THIS. Seriously, is even a $100 cab ride worth your career?
Click to expand...

Just don't puke in the cab, cause then it gets really expensive. Additionally, there are some nice ladies (albeit interestingly shaped) at Sammy's that will drive you home. It may be a little more expensive though.
 
wlawr005 said:
Don't fucking drink and drive.
Click to expand...
Exactly!

Also, don't drink and ride a bicycle!

Believe it or not, an impaired individual can get a DUI if they ride a bicycle on a public street/road/thoroughfare.

mad dog - former City of Cincinnati Police Officer
 
wlawr005 said:
You're missing the point. The base cops are gonna pull you over and then call the civilian cops to come arrest you. Then you have to deal with both sides of the situation.
Click to expand...
This is not true in all cases and in all locations. As with everything, it depends on the circumstances. I had a Sailor recently who actually made it through the gate and back to the barracks, only to be reported (and arrested) because he was having significant issues trying to park at the on-base Subway. Everything was handled by the Navy, no civilian law enforcement involvement. But, just my .02c :-)
 
wlawr005 said:
^...Don't fucking drink and drive.
Click to expand...

Absolutely best advice. PERIOD! On base, off base, anywhere! Folks can debate the finer points of onbase, offbase, CO's policy, etc but it tends to drag off us off what I think is a very important point, don't give law enforcement the opportunity to arrest you for something that is very preventable.

While on active duty, and especially while a base CO, I was stunned at the thousands and thousands of dollars spent by the accused, along with the countless personal hours spent on the legal matters and the stress of wondering what one's future would end up looking like. Active duty, retired, reserves, GS, dependants and contractors.

Many options out there. Cab, friends, etc. Friends make sure friends get all the way home/room, even walking home from a bar near the front gate.
 
I've never been pulled over for anything, but what are peoples' thoughts on refusing a FST, even if you're completely sober? I've read a bit about the varying intent and reliability of FSTs and portable breathalyzers and I'm inclined to tell an officer 'no thanks' followed by 'am I free to go?' I generally don't drink and drive at all and rarely give cops a reason to pull me over, so if I ever got pulled over at night, I can see myself getting in this scenario. I generally don't trust cops at all, not after the various stories and footage I've seen. Sure, in general, they serve the community and I appreciate that but many departments seem to put their own safety and institutional precepts above civil liberties, so I don't expect them to look out for my interests at all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top