Doing away with IFS?

[shanghai_tactics]

I know its against the general wisdom here, but when it starts looking like your not going to wing till your an O-3 the wait times start getting frustrating.

that's the exact reason I'm considering it, there are guys that are two or three years older than me and they aren't far along in the process, whatsoever... Ideally, one would be making more money, sooner. And in the early 20s the biggest asset is time.

 

[squorch2]

you're in the wrong field if you're looking to maximize productive time in your early 20s.

 

[Dontcallmegump]

that's the exact reason I'm considering it, there are guys that are two or three years older than me and they aren't far along in the process, whatsoever... Ideally, one would be making more money, sooner. And in the early 20s the biggest asset is time.

Alright man, you could potentially save a few months of your life for the cost of whatever a PPL will run you in your area.

Then again the entire flight training process isn't by "class". Sure you start with a class but aside from academic phases like API and ground schools your progression is based on how the cookie crumbles. There are too many factors to list them all but they add up to a sprint and drift kind of situation. People you started before can and will pass you. Then later down the line you may pass them again.

That 3 or month head start you're trying to buy may well evaporate by the time you even sit down in primary because the TW you go to has a wait and the other didn't. Now people from your API class who went to the other finish primary before you even start.

And if you think you have a measure of control over factors like that, wait until you see the little day to day things that can build to significant delays or just the opposite can cause you to move through at a break neck pace. You have no control whatsoever over those.

Just go with the flow and study more than you think you need to.

 

[Swanee]

Slightly off topic, but I distinctly remember an instructor during flight school saying that he was super delayed in the training commands, made LT in advanced (Non-Tacair guy), and said because of his timing he was going to either make O-4 on his VT shore tour, or 2xFOS and separate during said tour. Moral of the story being that 2xFOS trumps 8 year commitment, correct? So it’s not -always- 8 years plus wings, right? Or am I missing something?

That is correct. Title 10 trumps winging/service commitments.

 

[picklesuit]

The Navy is already going to force you to waste your own money on stupid shit (looking at you, boat food) why do that voluntarily?

 

[FrankTheTank]

IFS seems like a waste of time and money. Didn’t exist in the early 90s when I went through flight school. If you can’t make it though the program then the program needs fixed.

 

[kmac]

IFS seems like a waste of time and money. Didn’t exist in the early 90s when I went through flight school. If you can’t make it though the program then the program needs fixed.

It was the time and money savings that started IFS in the first place. “Our Mission is Attrition” was the unofficial motto. If you could weed out the students who weren’t aeronautically adept enough to pass Primary, before they even began Primary, then you just spared the Navy from wasting even more resources.

 

[squorch2]

And the programmatic costs (flight/ground instructional hours) are such that it's pretty easy to show a benefit with v. v. few attrites.

(ofc lots of cost is on the backs of unsuspecting students, thus as it ever was in training commands)

 

[Jim123]

It was the time and money savings that started IFS in the first place. “Our Mission is Attrition” was the unofficial motto. If you could weed out the students who weren’t aeronautically adept enough to pass Primary, before they even began Primary, then you just spared the Navy from wasting even more resources.

Partly that and partly self-screening (DOR). If someone comes to that moment of personal realization sitting in a light civil airplane instead of sitting in a more expensive Navy airplane then it's cheaper. I'm sure one could use figures and statistics to demonstrate either conclusion.

Our IFS hasn't ever quite been like the USAF program that it was sorta modeled after. Theirs is more formal and run a lot more like military flight school (i.e. study hard or fail). We've never fully committed to that model... I guess you could say we got what we asked for.

 

[picklesuit]

Way cheaper per hour to attrite in a Cessna than a Texan...

 

[Jim123]

Way cheaper per hour to attrite in a Cessna than a Texan...

At a glance, sure- the metal costs $150/FH vs $1000, the instructor is cheaper too, etc. But it gets hazy if you factor how much longer the average O1 is in the training pipeline during IFS plus the IFS pool (days or weeks or whatever). Multiply that by everybody in the flight program. Then compare it to the cost of the DORs (only a few % of the total students) and what it cost to send that person through ground school, simulators, and a few flights in the T-6.

I dunno... like I said, if the boss wants to keep the program or get rid of it, I'm sure a staffer could find supporting data for the right conclusion.

 

[squorch2]

Anecdata: I was friends with one of the first IFS DORs, who did so shortly after 3rd flight of HATING landing the plane.

Money saved, for sure.

 

[FrankTheTank]

Fair points.. I was under the impression that it was “everybody gets a Trophy”. Didn’t realize you can fail IFS. Thought it was mostly show and tell.

 

[Hopeful Hoya]

One of my buddies failed his IFS check ride after being unable to safely land because his onwing never spent any time instructing him in the landing pattern... At least from what I recall there was a pretty large quality spread amongst the different flight schools and instructors in the IFS program so I could definitely see the benefit from more military IP involvement.

 

[FrankTheTank]

So follow up thought. What is the attrition/DOR rate?