Dogs and cats living together, or at least cooperating against Iran

[Flash]

Unfortunately, I'm afraid you're right ... not because it's YOU, Slash (sic), but because I'm afraid we and the Jews have let too much time run off the clock playing prevent defense for all the wrong reasons.

Now the only options left other than allowing a nuke-armed-Iran to emerge seem to be 'tough' ones ... ain't that the way it always is ... ?? War really is hell.

I'm just not sure that if 'we' do nothing except try to contain 'em, we can live with that result, either.

I don't think there was very much we or anyone else could have done, it's not like they were doing things in the open or making it easy for their targets to be struck. The raw material made it there long before we ever thought they would try for the bomb. I am not even certain they will ever get to the bomb anyways, and even if they do have a very viable inventory or delivery system/s.

What a strike will do is give the Iranians a taste of what will come if they continue with the program. That may or may not deter them, but it is clear to Israel that the U.S. and Europe support for them is weakening, while Iran is getting stronger militarily, Hezbollah is growing in strength. Israel knows that if they do nothing now they will very probably have to take significant military action in the not-too-distant future. If the "probable consequences" are going to occur anyway, it's worth taking a chance.

It could also strengthen their resolve and the regime in power right now. Israel's attack on Hezbollah in 2006 did little but strengthen them in the short and long term. And Israel can't keep up offensive operations against Iran for very long, they are good but can only do so much against an enemy at that distance.

And I am not sure where you are getting they are getting more stronger militarily, buying into their propaganda?

Probable consequences? You mean a nuke strike? Even if they do get one I doubt they set it off against Israel, even the guys at the top who talk all the game want to live to see tomorrow. That wouldn't happen f they nuked Israel.

 

[exhelodrvr]

I don't think there was very much we or anyone else could have done, it's not like they were doing things in the open or making it easy for their targets to be struck. The raw material made it there long before we ever thought they would try for the bomb. I am not even certain they will ever get to the bomb anyways, and even if they do have a very viable inventory or delivery system/s.



It could also strengthen their resolve and the regime in power right now. Israel's attack on Hezbollah in 2006 did little but strengthen them in the short and long term. And Israel can't keep up offensive operations against Iran for very long, they are good but can only do so much against an enemy at that distance.

And I am not sure where you are getting they are getting more stronger militarily, buying into their propaganda?

Probable consequences? You mean a nuke strike? Even if they do get one I doubt they set it off against Israel, even the guys at the top who talk all the game want to live to see tomorrow. That wouldn't happen f they nuked Israel.

Increased military capability from Russian and Chinese sales of military equipment to Iran, as well as the re-arming and growth of Hezbollah. The probable consequences of an Israeli attack on Iran would be Hezbollah actions against Israel; but that is going to happen anyway. It's just a matter of time. And stop assuming completely rational actions on the part of the Iranian leadership.

 

[helolumpy]

A couple of points I like to add to the discussion:

1) The Iranians are Persian and the Saudi's are Arabs. LOTS of bad blood between those two groups going back long before Jesus was living in the neighborhood.

2) Saudi Arabia truly fears Iran more than Israel. If you leave Israel alone, they won't bother you (unless you actually live in Israel). Iran on the other hand has its sights set on being the local hegemon which Saudi Arabia would not like.

Iran is a fairly western country for that region with a democratically elected (at least on paper) leader. Saudi Arabis is a monarchy that fears an uprising within its own country so they have jets on Alert 24/7 to get the royal family out of dodge in the event the people decide they've had enough. Saudi Arabia does not want Iran to increase their influence into the Kingdom.

Iran having nuclear weapons is not in Saudi Arabia's best interests. It would destablize the region and that would be bad for a country with lots of vulnerable oil infrastructure all within range of TBMs coming across the Gulf.

I am curious as to the reports that Saudi Arabia is training to allow Israel to attack. You would think that the Saudi gov't would want to have plausible deniablity in the event Israel did launch a strike. By committing a sin of omission in the Iranian eyes will probably be viewed as active participation.

So, did Saudi Arabia use this in part of their STRATCOMM plan or was this a OPSEC failure. I'm curious as to what Saudi hopes to gain by opening supporting Israel here...

 

[Flash]

Increased military capability from Russian and Chinese sales of military equipment to Iran, as well as the re-arming and growth of Hezbollah.

With the exception of a possible S-300 transfer that supposedly hasn't happened yet I really don't know where you are getting that.

And stop assuming completely rational actions on the part of the Iranian leadership.[/B]

Stop assuming that they will be irrational, they have proven quite the opposite.

 

[exhelodrvr]

I'm curious as to what Saudi hopes to gain by opening supporting Israel here...

You said it yourself - they fear Iran more. Apparently the Saudis are irrational, too. Supposedly they will temporarily deactiavate that portion of their air defenses to allow Israel to use their airspace, and then they will activate it again, and claim that they didn't know what was going on.

 

[helolumpy]

You said it yourself - they fear Iran more. Apparently the Saudis are irrational, too. Supposedly they will temporarily deactiavate that portion of their air defenses to allow Israel to use their airspace, and then they will activate it again, and claim that they didn't know what was going on.

Which goes back to my question; why openly antagonize Tehran?? And to not only condone but actually assist the Israeli military to attack a fellow Muslim country??

Was this Strategic Communications on the part of the Saudis or an OPSEC violation.
I noticed a "US Defense Official" was speaking about the Saudi 'exercise'.

To preemptively openly oppose Iran is not in the Saudi's nature...

 

[Alpha_Echo_606]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Nothing new going on here.

You could leave religion completely out of it, and there still would be geopolitical reasons for emnity between Saudi Arabia and Israel. Such things do not preclude temporary alliances of convenience (and just goes to show that when the chips are down, nobody lets that religious horseshit get in the way of self-interest).

 

[exhelodrvr]

Which goes back to my question; why openly antagonize Tehran?? And to not only condone but actually assist the Israeli military to attack a fellow Muslim country??

Was this Strategic Communications on the part of the Saudis or an OPSEC violation.
I noticed a "US Defense Official" was speaking about the Saudi 'exercise'.

To preemptively openly oppose Iran is not in the Saudi's nature...

They fear them getting the bomb. Period. And they are (apparently) willing to antagonize them if necessary to stop that. If Iran gets a bomb, the result will be an arms race in the MidEast or Iran using the threat of their nuclear capabilities to bully the rest of the region. And their proxies will end up in armed conflict with Israel, with the potential for nuclear weapon exchange between Israel and Iran hanging over everything. The Saudis were willing to sit by and let us take care of it, but we pretty clearly are not going to do anything about it, so they are stuck with Israel. Politics makes strange bedfellows.

 

[Recovering LSO]

. Politics makes strange bedfellows.

Politics and a lack of leadership...

 

[exhelodrvr]

Good column on this issue:

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/iran-cannot-be-contained-15462