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'Disproportionate' In What Moral Universe?
- Thread starter GMan1976
- Start date
Agreed. But the media doesn't show that; thus it doesn't exist and people think that the Israeli MO is to respond to rocks and sticks with bombs and bullets. And with that I will stop, before a four line post becomes a four page rant.:icon_rage
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
They better hope Israel continues to use restraint. When they finally "Unleash Hell", it WILL NOT be pretty.
jmiller82
Registered User
Agreed.. What happens when/if this resolution (the revised UN version) for a cease-fire goes through as planned in the next few days and Israel agrees to the terms, but the rockets from Hezbollah keep flying into Israel (as the short, fat Hezbollah leader guy has said will happen)? And what is to be said of Hezbollah fighters resisting authority to a UN peacekeeping force? These guys aren't playing by the rules, but as always, the media (both Arabic and Western) hasn't called them on it.
j_m74 said:
No, the cease fire was Hezbollah's goal from the outset of the conflct. With it they can show that they have attacked Israel, damaged her, and are still alive to gloat over their "victory". They are fighting a psychological war, while Israel is fighting a traditional one.
You cant win a baseball game if your playing football.
jmiller82
Registered User
That may have been their initial goal, but it has changed a bit. All of the reports (both on the news and in articles and the papers) say that Hezbollah will not accept a UN-sponsored cease-fire and as long as Israeli forces (peacekeeping or otherwise) remain in Southern Lebanon, which I believe the IDF intends to do, Hezbollah will not cease fire.. It's a volatile situation, but as it's been said before, how do you play with someone playing by different rules (or a different game altogether)?
Riper Snifle
OCC 194 TBS C 03-07
Great article, really hits the nail on the head. Thanks for posting it! 
While I DISAGREE completely with Hezbollah's policies we have to admit that they are freakin Einsteins (pun intended) when it comes to war. Dont belive it? Who else could attack a soverign nation and then turn world opinion against that same nation. They have set up a remarkably resilient infrastructure that, while it will not last forever, has done a remarkably good job at surviving the pounding that the Israelis have given them. They have set up their positions so that when the Israelis attempt to attack them there are civillian casulties, which turns the world against them. To say that when another oppourtunity arises to get world opinion on their side (because they will have "proven" that you can negotiate with terrorists) they wont take it would be to forget their tactical, and strategic intelligence.
GMan1976
Banned
I don't really think that Hezbollah "turned" world opinion against Israel. Most countries apart from the US, UK, AUS, etc wouldn't blink an eye if She ceased to exist. Lets face it, "world opinion" for centuries has not sincerely rested with the Jews. It's a sad truth...
thull
Well-Known Member
Pretty good article, Gman. Of course certain debatable points, such as his historical "parallels." This is a little more..complicated... than wars past. here's two sides:
Side 1
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2006-08-03-letters-mideast_x.htm
Israel using ineffective Rumsfeld model Posted 8/3/2006 8:49 PM ET
swapContent('firstHeader','applyHeader'); Just when Israel was gaining some credibility from the world for its commitment to peace by withdrawing from southern Lebanon and some of the occupied territories, it overreacts to the kidnapping of two soldiers. Israel is following the Donald Rumsfeld book on nation-building and destroying the very government and infrastructure that is needed to defeat the terrorists (" Israel vows no cease-fire soon," News, Tuesday).
Lebanon was well on its way to becoming the kind of secular, democratic neighbor Israel needs on its northern border. It was not given the time to become strong enough to hold off Hezbollah. When Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000, it should have asked for an international force to protect it from kidnappings and rocket attacks. In fact, the more than 135,000 U.S. troops now stationed in Iraq would have been better used on Israel's northern border.
I grow weary of comparisons between this fight and the one we had with the fascists in World War II.
As sick as Hitler was, he had a standing army and clear borders that we could beat him back into; his country had people who, when it was all said and done, wanted to make peace with their neighbors, rebuild their country and get on with their lives.
Not so with the religious zealots we are dealing with now. When will we, and the Israelis, realize that conventional warfare will not work?
Now, of course, it is too late.
Israel's destruction of Lebanon's infrastructure and the killing of its civilians has made Hezbollah more popular than ever. The Israeli government should have met Donald Rumsfeld in Baghdad months ago.
If it had, it would have seen firsthand the consequences of miscalculation.
Kathleen Butler, Wichita
Side 2
Right to counter act of war
It was with utter disbelief that I read the letter from Ramie Streng, " ' Shame on Israel' " (Monday).
How does the invasion of a country and the kidnapping of two of its soldiers, as well as the deaths of eight other soldiers, call out for diplomacy?
This was an act of war, and Israel has responded. Am I sympathetic to the innocent citizens of Lebanon who probably just want to live their lives? Of course.
Even so, those responsible for this situation are those who started it, and it is they who should be held accountable. The deaths of civilians, many of them children, are tragic. But all could have been avoided by not committing this act of aggression. Don't start the war if you are not willing to suffer the consequences.
Furthermore, the attack was by Hezbollah; Israel is retaliating — an important distinction. Streng should get fully educated on this issue before speaking out.
Break into my house, kill my children and see what happens. We sure won't be sitting around talking about it. Countries of the world: If you don't want Israel to decimate your homeland, don't mess with Israel. It isn't rocket science.
Grant Fournier, Scappoose, Ore.
So it goes. Gone are the days of Pearl Harbor and Hitler. In with the days of icky, messy conflicts. like quick sand. The more you panic and flail in it, the deeper you go.
troy
Side 1
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2006-08-03-letters-mideast_x.htm
Israel using ineffective Rumsfeld model Posted 8/3/2006 8:49 PM ET
swapContent('firstHeader','applyHeader'); Just when Israel was gaining some credibility from the world for its commitment to peace by withdrawing from southern Lebanon and some of the occupied territories, it overreacts to the kidnapping of two soldiers. Israel is following the Donald Rumsfeld book on nation-building and destroying the very government and infrastructure that is needed to defeat the terrorists (" Israel vows no cease-fire soon," News, Tuesday).
Lebanon was well on its way to becoming the kind of secular, democratic neighbor Israel needs on its northern border. It was not given the time to become strong enough to hold off Hezbollah. When Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000, it should have asked for an international force to protect it from kidnappings and rocket attacks. In fact, the more than 135,000 U.S. troops now stationed in Iraq would have been better used on Israel's northern border.
I grow weary of comparisons between this fight and the one we had with the fascists in World War II.
As sick as Hitler was, he had a standing army and clear borders that we could beat him back into; his country had people who, when it was all said and done, wanted to make peace with their neighbors, rebuild their country and get on with their lives.
Not so with the religious zealots we are dealing with now. When will we, and the Israelis, realize that conventional warfare will not work?
Now, of course, it is too late.
Israel's destruction of Lebanon's infrastructure and the killing of its civilians has made Hezbollah more popular than ever. The Israeli government should have met Donald Rumsfeld in Baghdad months ago.
If it had, it would have seen firsthand the consequences of miscalculation.
Kathleen Butler, Wichita
Side 2
Right to counter act of war
It was with utter disbelief that I read the letter from Ramie Streng, " ' Shame on Israel' " (Monday).
How does the invasion of a country and the kidnapping of two of its soldiers, as well as the deaths of eight other soldiers, call out for diplomacy?
This was an act of war, and Israel has responded. Am I sympathetic to the innocent citizens of Lebanon who probably just want to live their lives? Of course.
Even so, those responsible for this situation are those who started it, and it is they who should be held accountable. The deaths of civilians, many of them children, are tragic. But all could have been avoided by not committing this act of aggression. Don't start the war if you are not willing to suffer the consequences.
Furthermore, the attack was by Hezbollah; Israel is retaliating — an important distinction. Streng should get fully educated on this issue before speaking out.
Break into my house, kill my children and see what happens. We sure won't be sitting around talking about it. Countries of the world: If you don't want Israel to decimate your homeland, don't mess with Israel. It isn't rocket science.
Grant Fournier, Scappoose, Ore.
So it goes. Gone are the days of Pearl Harbor and Hitler. In with the days of icky, messy conflicts. like quick sand. The more you panic and flail in it, the deeper you go.
troy
thenuge
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
I disagree. Everyday Israel drops bombs on Lebanese soil it is a PR victory for Hezbollah. Now even Lebanese Christians are supporting the Hezbollah. How messed up is that?
The Hezbollah along with Iran are a very clever bunch. I think they knew that Israel could potentially "overreact" to their misconduct and be found guilty in the court of public opinion for their retaliation.
The "conflict" benefits Hezbollah, not Israel. It benefits Iran, not America. It benefits the radical Shia in Iraq, not the moderates that are needed to stabilize the country.
Don't get me wrong, I side with Israel here. I am just not sure that Israel's action are in the best interest of Israel or The United States for that matter.
Bob in Forida....what........say.........you.....?