• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

Decision Time - Need help from doctors

198234

Registered User
Hi,

I am thinking about joining the Navy through OCS. I'm in my mid-twenties, have a bachelors and masters. Simply put, I want to join the Navy to fly jets. I had a question: quite a few years ago, I was a military academy for one year, and after one year left for personal reasons. However, during this time there were two/three episodes that could be interpreted as a loss of consciousness: one after standing at attention in the hot sun for almost an hour, and another while during physical training and in the squatting position. I went to the clinic for treatment and, as such, there is some documentation. I had a adverse reaction to a tilt-table test.

As I consider joining the Navy, I had a few questions:

1) Is there any reason that the Navy would find out about this if I didn't tell them about it? Would a service and/or reserve unit routinely request personell/medical records from NSRC? Are military academy records

2) If these episodes were revealed, would they be medically disqualifying to fly?

3) If they were medically disqualifying, what are the chances I could get a waiver? I should say that I have never had any other episodes resembling loss of consciousness in my life, not before or since. I have taken comprehensive physicals since then and passed them all. The conditions at the time were unique. Furthermore, I think that one of the doctors evaluating my condition at the time was biased against me, for certain reasons (long story). I could retake tests and pass, no problem. This truely was a fluke.

Thanks a lot for the response.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Hi,

I am thinking about joining the Navy through OCS. I'm in my mid-twenties, have a bachelors and masters. Simply put, I want to join the Navy to fly jets. I had a question: quite a few years ago, I was a military academy for one year, and after one year left for personal reasons. However, during this time there were two/three episodes that could be interpreted as a loss of consciousness: one after standing at attention in the hot sun for almost an hour, and another while during physical training and in the squatting position. I went to the clinic for treatment and, as such, there is some documentation. I had a adverse reaction to a tilt-table test.

As I consider joining the Navy, I had a few questions:

1) Is there any reason that the Navy would find out about this if I didn't tell them about it? Would a service and/or reserve unit routinely request personell/medical records from NSRC? Are military academy records

2) If these episodes were revealed, would they be medically disqualifying to fly?

3) If they were medically disqualifying, what are the chances I could get a waiver? I should say that I have never had any other episodes resembling loss of consciousness in my life, not before or since. I have taken comprehensive physicals since then and passed them all. The conditions at the time were unique. Furthermore, I think that one of the doctors evaluating my condition at the time was biased against me, for certain reasons (long story). I could retake tests and pass, no problem. This truely was a fluke.

Thanks a lot for the response.

Disclose the information. I'm no doc (and I don't play one on TV), but it sounds as though your issues may have been due to hydration and not some neurological anomaly. There are guys with much more serious issues than you've described who are flying (with or without waivers). Bottom line, be forthcoming about what happened, get evaluated, and press on. If you DO have a disqualifying condition and choose to hide it, it will present later on down the road and cause you more problems in the long run.

Brett
 

198234

Registered User
Hydration?

At the time, I suspected as much - that it may be due to hydration. But I am a little concerned that I failed the tilt-table test - true, the test was done mid-week and dehydration due to training before the test could have contributed to this - but would the docs now (seven years later) look on this as some kind of unreversible proof of a neurologic disorder, and not allow me to retest?

What about previous diagnoses? I believe that the doctor (at the time) may have diagnosed me in my records with neurocardiogenic syncope - of course I disagree, but 1) would I need and/or 2) could I get another doctor to give a second opinion and override this?

The complexities of this are why I am wondering whether it may never come up if they dont view the files. But, definitely understand the risks of not revealing info.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
At the time, I suspected as much - that it may be due to hydration. But I am a little concerned that I failed the tilt-table test - true, the test was done mid-week and dehydration due to training before the test could have contributed to this - but would the docs now (seven years later) look on this as some kind of unreversible proof of a neurologic disorder, and not allow me to retest?

What about previous diagnoses? I believe that the doctor (at the time) may have diagnosed me in my records with neurocardiogenic syncope - of course I disagree, but 1) would I need and/or 2) could I get another doctor to give a second opinion and override this?

The complexities of this are why I am wondering whether it may never come up if they dont view the files. But, definitely understand the risks of not revealing info.

Even though there are some flight docs on this forum, none of them would be able to give you a definitive answer without examining you. You're just going to have to see what happens. Hand-wringing and stressing about it now won't do you any good. Disclose your history when you get your physical and go from there.

Brett
 

feddoc

Really old guy
Contributor
^ what he said

Yea, what he said. It sure seems like your LOC are explainable and reasonable given the conditions. Based only on what you have said, I think you have no worries with respect to your LOC incidents.

An unexplained LOC is going to draw the attention of the NOMI folks and falls into a completely different category.

At the very least, press on with what you want to do and do explain the previous LOC.
 

198234

Registered User
Diagnosing

Yes, definetely understand that diagnoses cant be done over a discussion board. Thanks for the responses so far. I guess I am wondering IF it looks like I need a waiver, how the waiver will be decided. Will some weight be given to the old diagnosis, and some to new tests? Or will all weight be given to new tests? Or will all weight be giving to old diagnoses?

Anyone who has applied for a waiver know this?

Thanks a lot for any help you can provide.
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Every waiver is individualistic by nature. All requistie information will used to decide if a waiver is needed and if it is, it will be used along with everything else to determine the outcome of the waiver. You MUST get examined by a Navy doc.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
What's a "tilt-table test?" I think I skipped out on that in SERE.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
What's a "tilt-table test?" I think I skipped out on that in SERE.

BP is taken in the reclined and standing positions. A large Δ is indicative of dehydration/blood volume issues, among other things, I suspect.

Brett
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Oh, okay. I just lay down and then stood up. Didn't have any of those fancy mechanical tables. And exactly how much time did you save by finding the ASCII character rather than just typing out "delta?" ;)
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Oh, okay. I just lay down and then stood up. Didn't have any of those fancy mechanical tables. And exactly how much time did you save by finding the ASCII character rather than just typing out "delta?" ;)

ASCII? How 1987. ;) I had word open - insert symbol, cut/paste = instant geek. :D

Brett
 

198234

Registered User
Thanks for the help

Ok, thanks for the help so far. So assuming that the medical thing turns out to be waiverable (or not need a waiver)...

1) Would I be accepted into a pilot slot at the same time I am accepted into OCS? That is, am I accepted into OCS (i.e. sign the dotted line) and then go to OCS and have a CHANCE of getting a slot (less desirable, obviously, because this commits me without knowing if I will get a slot) OR am I accepted into OCS AND into a pilot slot at the same time, therefore knowing if I will go to pilot training BEFORE I sign the dotted line?

2) What are the acceptance rates for OCS/pilot slots these days? I should add that I expect myself to be rather competitive, UGPA 3.7 with highest honors and distinction, GGPA 3.8, SAT 1400, travelled all over the world, haven't taken Officer qualifying test or anything but (as a point of reference) ASVAB (which I took in high school) I got in the 99th percentile. How competitive would I be?

Thanks!
 

feddoc

Really old guy
Contributor
BP is taken in the reclined and standing positions. A large Δ is indicative of dehydration/blood volume issues, among other things, I suspect.

Brett

Mostly right. A true tilt table test involves an IV in one arm, a BP cuff on the other. An ECG is also hooked up. You get belted onto a table and the table is rotated to near vertical for 45 minutes...minimized movement.

After the first 45 minutes, if you don't faint, a drug is administered (similar to adrenaline) and you do it again for 45 minutes.
 
Top