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Continental Accuses Pilots Of Pension Scam

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insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
Who ever said the company was not going to pay them, they paid mine. They were just betting the company would do what Delta and United did at about the same time and they bet wrong. If they had not done this and got fired look where would they be now. Like I said, the pilot who was hired at about the same time I was has lost a job at $200,000+ a year and all the benefits and wide body senority until 2018 when he would have turned 65 at which time he would still have gotten that retirement plus whatever he would have earned under the new defined contribution retirement plan that came out in 2005. The only reason I mentioned the stock market is that for some of them even if they wanted to pay it back the money is not all there anymore

From what I understand of the story, it sounds like Continental is pissed because there was a loophole in the contract that allowed the pilots to get the 900k. What would appear to be illegal is if they (the pilots) had lied about being divorced or presented a falsified divorce decree to Continental in an attempt to get that money.

However, if the pilots actually, legally, divorced their spouse and had the signed order from the judge, Continental doesn't really appear to have a leg to stand on. Just because it may not be the nicest way of doing business, it wouldn't (to me) appear illegal. It just sounds like Continental is upset because they got tricked by their own contracts.

The caveat is if there is some sort of clause in the pilot contract that says you have to stay divorced or something of that nature. Otherwise, they just effectively gamed the system.

In my opinion, I would think the pilots who were let go could sue for being fired.
 

Ken_gone_flying

"I live vicariously through myself."
pilot
Contributor
Also think how much they will have to pay to defend themselves in court.

For the most part, everyone on here is saying that these pilots didn't do anything illegal, they just found a loophole. If thats the case, why woud they have to defend themselves in court? If its not the case and their actions were illegal, you being a prior Continental Airline pilot would probably know better than anyone on here. Please enlighten us.
 

Captain Coz

Member
pilot
Contributor
From what I understand the loophole was not in the Pilots Contract but was part of the Federal law that governs employer-sponsored retirement savings and investing plans that grow tax free. Continental alleges the pilots and their spouses continued to live together and concealed the change in their marital status from their children and friends. After getting the money the couples remarried. Continental called the divorces "subterfuges or sham transactions." On the local Houston television stations they interviewed several lawyers who were not directly involved in this and most seemed to feel that these pilots were not in a very good position. Who is right and who is wrong will be determined in court or some out of court settlement, time will tell. The thing that some of the junior pilots liked about this is that the number of pilots who were fired or resigned reduced the number of pilots furloughed and several pilots upgraded and got pay raises due to this.
 

Ken_gone_flying

"I live vicariously through myself."
pilot
Contributor
From what I understand the loophole was not in the Pilots Contract but was part of the Federal law that governs employer-sponsored retirement savings and investing plans that grow tax free. Continental alleges the pilots and their spouses continued to live together and concealed the change in their marital status from their children and friends. After getting the money the couples remarried. Continental called the divorces "subterfuges or sham transactions." On the local Houston television stations they interviewed several lawyers who were not directly involved in this and most seemed to feel that these pilots were not in a very good position. Who is right and who is wrong will be determined in court or some out of court settlement, time will tell. The good thing to some pilots about this is that the number of pilots who were fired or resigned reduced the number of pilots furloughed and several pilots upgraded and got pay raises due to this.


Thanks for the response. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds. Could turn out worse for these pilots than we thought.
 

Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Captain Coz:

You say you are retired Continental. You also say in your profile that you have been an airline pilot for "26 years." Doing the math, that meant you might have been hired by Continental in that tumultuous and bitter year of 1983 as a SCAB! Yes? No?

Continental had earlier hired a rash of great Naval Aviators until 1979, then stopped hiring for years. CAL then furloughed most of those late 1970's Naval Aviator hires in the early '80s. Thanks to greedy and selfish scabs stealing their jobs at half pay, many never returned. The airline operated as a pitiful laughing stock of the industry for the decade under Lorenzo and his enabling wannabes.

Both working and furloughed former Naval Aviators, most all in unison honored their brethern and the picket lines in the Continental pilot strike of 1983. Did you?

In 1983, Continental only hired scabs who otherwise couldn't get hired, who screwed their fellow aviators, and who robbed and backstabbed a lot of former Navy pilots of their Continental Airline jobs.

So.......when were you hired, and when did you work for Frank Lorenzo? Were you a SCAB? It looks like it. Tell us how you weren't.

Answer up and explain!
 

Captain Coz

Member
pilot
Contributor
I went to work at Texas International in 1979, was furloughed once and went on strike in 1983 and went to work for Muse Air during the strike, went on medical disability for cancer in 2004 and retired from Continental in 2006. And yes, my retirement pay was reduced by my time on strike.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
I went to work at Texas International in 1979, was furloughed once and went on strike in 1983 and went to work for Muse Air during the strike
Interesting ... I knew some guys who worked for Muse -- did you know Elder, Asay, or Mayo, for starters -- know any of them??

T
ough times for airline pilots back then -- but in reality, when weren't the times 'tough' for airline pilots??

-- popular opinions notwithstanding. :)

What year did you go back to Continental??
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
I went to work at Texas International in 1979, was furloughed once and went on strike in 1983 and went to work for Muse Air during the strike, went on medical disability for cancer in 2004 and retired from Continental in 2006.....
Soooooooooooooooo .... 'Captain' Coz:

We see you were on the website today @ 1530 website time +/- .... and yet you chose not to answer our very clear and direct question(s) posted above.

It's really simple:

1. What year did you 'go back' to Continental ???

2. Did you work/fly struck work for Frank Lorenzo during the '83-'85 strike ???

3. Were you (actually ... ARE you ... as the situation can never be rectified) -- a Continental Airline SCAB ???

 

Captain Coz

Member
pilot
Contributor
Soooooooooooooooo .... 'Captain' Coz:

We see you were on the website today @ 1530 website time +/- .... and yet you chose not to answer our very clear and direct question(s) posted above.

It's really simple:

1. What year did you 'go back' to Continental ???

2. Did you work/fly struck work for Frank Lorenzo during the '83-'85 strike ???

3. Were you (actually ... ARE you ... as the situation can never be rectified) -- a Continental Airline SCAB ???
This response is for both A4sForever and Catmando

I went back to Continental in 1984 after about one year on strike. It was about the same time that I declared personnal bankruptcy and after ALPA cut off strike benefits for those strikers working for another part 121 airline. I was making about 800+ a month at Muse and strike benefits for 1st and 2nd officers were around 1250 or 1350 a month until they were taken away. With a wife and 4 children I did what I felt I had to do for my family.

Does this make me a scab, yes.
Do I care what you think, no.
Do I care about the negative reports you have put in my file on this web site. No, but if it makes you feel good go ahead and continue to do it.
I have a good reputation both as a Naval Officer and at Continental among both those old Continental pilot groups who went on strike and eventually came back to work, those who crossed the picket lines and modern day new hires. Check it out.

How about you answering some questions for me, these are ones I answered for you.
What airline do or did you work for?
When did you get hired?
What is the timeline of your airline career?

To answer another question you asked, I remember Bob Elder but not Asay or Mayo, it has been 25 years.

You seem upset that I did not answer your question yesterday at 1530 as you mentioned. It is not because I am embarrassed or afraid to as you would like to think, I just did not feel like it as I was on my computer while in the doctors office and having some test run. You need to calm down, take a deep breath and relax and you will live longer. Believe me, with all my medical problems I cannot let people like you get me upset, life is too short.

That is why my motto is, "When I get up in the morning I breathe on the mirror and if it fogs up it is a good day".

Sorry I have to run as I have more medical test to do today.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
.... words ... justification ... words ... I did what I felt I had to do for my family.
Does this make me a scab, yes.
.... more words ...
I don't answer any questions posed by a SCAB.

Now that we know 'what' you are --- I'd ignore you on the line -- so why do you think this website is any different ???

And please ... save your rationalizations for someone who will listen. It's always the rationalizations & justification w/ these guys -- while better men & women held the line .... SCABs covered themselves in a lifetime of shame for temporary gain. You'd stick your Brothers in the back for your own personal gain ... but wait; you already did .... and the rest of your stuff is bullshit. You're a SCAB for life. You brought it with you when you reported aboard Continental. Every CAL, EAL, and UAL SCAB that I personally knew in the NAVY was an asshole long before they showed up & changed uniforms to fly for fun & profit.

What's REALLY fucking amazing is that you had the balls to come onto this thread & post ANYTHING .. knowing full well that you are a Continental Airline SCAB -- one of Frank's butt-boys. One that was used to break the pilot's union -- one that was used to screw your 'Amigos'. Your evasiveness was all too obvious ... it didn't take rocket scientists to figure you out -- just a couple of airline pilots who stood w/ their Brothers and didn't cross a picket line ...

Why is it that airline SCABs are ALWAYS readily apparent ... ??? :)

Q.E.D.



 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
thescab.jpg
 

Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
This response is for both A4sForever and Catmando....

Does this make me a scab, yes.
Do I care what you think, no.
I'll be blunt. You scab Coz personally stole my career - and many former Naval Aviators' careers - forever by scabbing. And you also helped perpetuate the likes of Lorenzo to continue on and later screw the pilots of Eastern, Frontier, Peoples Express, etc.

Sure, you did it for your wife and 4 children. I've heard all the excuses.

But what about the real Continental Pilots who suffered with their families, some also declaring bankruptcy, and even some suicides abetted by your selfish action? The difference is they maintained integrity, despite the difficult and long hardships. They stood tall, shoulder-to-shoulder. It is something the military teaches you. Duty. Honor. Stand with your buddy. You perhaps slept through those lessons.

Apparently you must not have been "on strike" very long, and certainly not "almost" a year as you claim. The strike benefits - paid for by contributions from fellow pilots of most all other airlines out of their personal paychecks - were upped to $2,000 a month, not the "1250 or 1350 a month" you say. Couldn't you live on 2k a month in 1983 dollars and maintain your integrity?

And if you couldn't live on $800 a month at Muse, why go there? Especially when strike benefits were nearly double? (Oh, never mind.... I forgot you were double dipping on the strike benefits paid for by other industry pilots... until that loophole stopped. Then you scabbed so you could become an instant captain instead of the junior F/O you really were. )

You may or may not have had a good reputation as a Naval Officer. Makes no difference. You know what they say about bridge builders - You may build a thousand great bridges, but cross one picket line and they don't call you a bridge builder - They call you a sucking scab forever!

You stole my job and many of my best friends and former Naval Aviators' (including combat veterans and TOPGUN instructors) jobs at CAL forever, by your selfishness. It is a bell never to be un-rung. I may have landed on my feet eventually, but many did not for years, while you flew their aircraft in a seat not yours. And for slave wages and uncle Frank, because it's all about you, isn't it?

I'll never forget. Just as I remember like yesterday how my wingmen performed under fire (and they performed most admirably, thank you), I also remember how my fellow pilots performed during the strike of '83. While I am not too surprised a large number of low-life civilians crossed the picket lines, I regret and really detest the limited number of former Naval Aviators that did! They knew better.

Sometimes there is a pattern in one's posts and profile. It raises flags. Especially when it's all about them, in detail, and they take positions not always coinciding with a normal background. It is similar to former posers here. And even if you weren't a scab, you would get no sympathy from me about your vaguely repeated medical problems, apparently fishing for some sympathy.


"The good thing to some pilots about this is that the number of pilots who were fired or resigned reduced the number of pilots furloughed and several pilots upgraded and got pay raises due to this."

There is no good thing about a pilot being fired, unless he was incompetent, dangerous, criminal, etc. And those are fortunately extremely rare. Seeing the bright side of these contended pilot terminations fits your scabby profile... gaining a flying job on someone elses misfortune!

Crawl back under your rock, scab.
 
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