Continental Accuses Pilots Of Pension Scam

[Ken_gone_flying]

If these guys were going to scam the system, they should have at least attempted to make it look lagit, i.e. not stayed living with their "divorced" spouse, just in case the airline caught on, like they did.


http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/ContinentalAccusesPilotsOfPensionScam_200450-1.html

 

[Makk85]

Can't say I blame them for wanting to secure their pensions the way most airlines are going these days.

 

[FrankTheTank]

Somebody, somewhere is always working a scam. Be it Pension, Disability, Social Security, Ponzi Schemes, et cetera, this is nothing new and folks will always try and cheat the "system". Until they finally fix the loopholes and put the criminals where they belong, expect to read more of the same.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Yeah, but is exploiting a loophole really illegal? (Notice I didn't ask if it was unethical.)

The law says divorced. It doesn't say divorced and stay that way. I've heard of other cases where people have gotten divorced because of things like medical or disability benefits only working if they are not married, etc. There was no outcry over those and in some cases it was actually suggested by the benefit provider or legal system.

The way airline management is today, I don't know if I really blame these guys for doing what they did. It's being talked about on an airline forum and the consensus there is that as long as no laws were broken, more power to them for finding the loophole. The feeling is that the airline will try and find a way to cancel the benefits so why not protect them within what the law allows.

 

[scoolbubba]

They beat the system. Kudos to them for pulling one over on management... given the chance, airline management would stick it to them in a heartbeat.

 

[blackbart22]

Just as a historical note, at least three of my preflight classmates got divorced to come into the NAVCAD program. I know that the midshipman contract said "not married and never has been", but the NAVCAD contract simplely said not married. I know this to be the case since I've been both. My preflight class started out as all ex-enlisted, but was combined with another class after the first week that had members without enlisted service. The three that I knew about were all ex-enlisted. Two of them remarried their ex. The third got a Dear John-didn't break his heart.

 

[picklesuit]

I don't see the problem here...except for the pussy who gave his money back...

 

[Pugs]

Yeah, but is exploiting a loophole really illegal? (Notice I didn't ask if it was unethical.).

Exactly, and depending on the documented reason for the termination mentioned and what he does about it he may end with a bit more money should he decide to take on Continental in court.

I have several relatives who worked for Eastern for a long time and for the most part got screwed. My Grandfather retired in 82 after 30 years and at least got something. While we all love aviation, airlines are a business and employees are merely a means to an end for them. Doesn't make them evil, just businesses.

 

[insanebikerboy]

I say bully on 'em. If they did it on purpose that may be shady but it didn't appear to be illegal.

 

[A4sForever]

I have no heartburn over what these guys 'did' ... it seems they broke no laws.

Management doesn't like it ??? I laugh ... mebbe they should read the pilot contract ???

Initially ... I was totally loyal to my airline(s) ... and then, after getting screwed, blued, and tattoo'd by more than one of them ... over an' over an' over again ... I realized the great truth about airline pilots:

YOU ARE JUST A PIECE OF MEAT

A well paid and trained (in most cases) piece of meat, to be sure ... a professional that management hates, a guy in a white shirt that management hates .... an integral & necessary part of the enterprise, to be sure .... but 'meat', nevertheless ...

Once I had that epiphany ... the clouds parted, the sun was brighter, the breezes favored me, and the hassles seemed less ... and I enjoyed my time off even more ....

 

[Captain Coz]

I don't see the problem here...except for the pussy who gave his money back...

Maybe you don't see the problem but it is a lot more complex than you think. The pilots who were fired lost their $200,000+ a year jobs, 5 to 6 weeks a year vacation, medical, dental etc. I was hired with one of the pilots and he had 27 years in when he was fired and could have continued at Continental until he turned 65 in 2018. Also this was a couple of years ago when they pulled this off and when they got their $900,000+ lump sums many of them invested in the stock market which tanked causing many of them a loss of a third to half of their investment. The company wants this back with interest and and any profit (?) they may have made. Your reference to the pilot who gave his money back is also wrong. In return for admitting what he had done Continental let him keep his job and he was required to pay back his retirement with interest. He has not yet paid them back the money (a lot was lost in the economic downturn) and as a result he is also included in Continentals lawsuit to recover the money. Another group of pilots lucked out in that they were also trying to be in on the scam but the company quit paying out the lump sums for divorces until they could investigate this and as a result they were not fired and still have their jobs. Also think how much they will have to pay to defend themselves in court. I am retired from Continental (had to retire when I turned 60, before the law was changed to 65). The loss of a great flying job, loss wages, possible loss of these retirement funds and everything else involved could not have been worth it.

 

[A4sForever]

... I am retired from Continental...

Were you there during the reign of "Frank" ... ???

Like I say; if it was in the contract ... I have no problem w/ these guys doing what they did .... and would I do it??

I don't know ... I'd have to walk in their shoes before I could answer that question.

 

[Carlos Caliente]

Still, if they walked away with 900K that they earned and the company was not going to pay them good on 'em. Whether they lost it on the stock market or not is sorta besides the point and serves only to differentiate how much poo they're in now that Continental wants that money back. It doesn't appear that any actual laws were broken nor were any animals harmed in the production of this farce.

 

[A4sForever]

Still, if they walked away with 900K that they earned ...

Well, ... see .... to me -- that's the thing.

Your pension/retirement money is NOT 'free money' nor is it the 'Company's money'.

It is 'YOUR' money'; it's what was accrued & contractually agreed to by both parties over a series of contract negotiations during the course of an airline pilot's career ... and it's what the Company agreed to pay the pilots' w/ set-asides, contributions, and investments when they (pilots) retired in exchange for work rule & other cost concessions over the life of several contracts ... and those contract & retirement provisions are something the pilots' agreed to w/ the Company -- all IN GOOD FAITH.

I don't know the Continental Pilot contract, but going under the assumption (always a dangerous thing) that this provision was in the contract -- show me where they broke any laws??

Again ... if anyone thinks an airline will not 'stick it to the pilots', if it's their best corporate interest(s) .... then you're smokin' something you ought not to be smokin' ...

The days when airline management put something of their own personal 'heart & soul' into the running of an airline are long, long gone .... history.

Believe it.

 

[Captain Coz]

Still, if they walked away with 900K that they earned and the company was not going to pay them good on 'em. Whether they lost it on the stock market or not is sorta besides the point and serves only to differentiate how much poo they're in now that Continental wants that money back. It doesn't appear that any actual laws were broken nor were any animals harmed in the production of this farce.

Who ever said the company was not going to pay them, they paid mine. They were just betting the company would do what Delta and United did at about the same time and they bet wrong. If they had not done this and got fired look where would they be now. Like I said, the pilot who was hired at about the same time I was has lost a job at $200,000+ a year and all the benefits and wide body senority until 2018 when he would have turned 65 at which time he would still have gotten that retirement plus whatever he would have earned under the new defined contribution retirement plan that came out in 2005. The only reason I mentioned the stock market is that for some of them even if they wanted to pay it back the money is not all there anymore