Community Transitions

[porw0004]

I've researched that aviation community transfers happen from time to time. People move from VP to VAQ, HSL to VFA, VQ to HSC, VRC to.... yeah I made that last one up, nobody is that crazy. I've done my homework on the site trying to soak up what info I could but I haven't found an answer to my particular questions.

I understand that being able to screen for command and make an extended career after transfering communities is a crapshoot due to numerous factors beyond typical JO quals, though I haven't been able to find any mention of when transfering is "ideal". I would appreciate any feedback from those with first-hand, or at worst second-hand, knowledge about when it is possible to apply to another community.

Do people typically apply for transfer after their initial sea tour, resulting in nearly back-to-back sea tours? Or, is attempting it after your shore tour more the norm? Also, what would best set you up for a run as a department head as opposed to a super-JO tour in your new community?

 

[insanebikerboy]

I've researched that aviation community transfers happen from time to time. People move from VP to VAQ, HSL to VFA, VQ to HSC, VRC to.... yeah I made that last one up, nobody is that crazy. I've done my homework on the site trying to soak up what info I could but I haven't found an answer to my particular questions.

I understand that being able to screen for command and make an extended career after transfering communities is a crapshoot due to numerous factors beyond typical JO quals, though I haven't been able to find any mention of when transfering is "ideal". I would appreciate any feedback from those with first-hand, or at worst second-hand, knowledge about when it is possible to apply to another community.

Do people typically apply for transfer after their initial sea tour, resulting in nearly back-to-back sea tours? Or, is attempting it after your shore tour more the norm? Also, what would best set you up for a run as a department head as opposed to a super-JO tour in your new community?

Transitions can be a crapshoot. Some guys are forced into it, i.e. the S-3 sundown a few years ago. Others put in for a myriad of reasons. The problems come about when you drop the bomb on your front office. Some skippers will have no problem with it, other skippers will think you're a devil's reject (a.k.a., if you don't get picked up you're screwed).

Typically you'd go through a modified syllabus depending on what platform you switch to. Fixed wing to helo, probably just advanced, helo to fixed wing, modified primary followed by advanced, then both have the rag into a sea tour.

The timeline is seriously compressed as there are typically wickets you have to meet to be considered a "game player". That said, if you rock it all and are a water walker odds are you'll advance as far as you want to go.

Masterbates did the HSL-VAW transition, he'd have the best gouge.

 

[HooverPilot]

I would recommend to the generic situation that a transfer in the last months of you first sea tour is best. This will give you time to go through the new FRS & have a full super JO tour. That way, you will be as qualified in model as the next guy for the O-4/DH look. Your time in the first community will be considered your disassociated sea tour & the FRS time your shore tour.

I transitioned communities along with the rest of the Viking bubbas. The guys who went this path were the more successful group. You can transition at other times in your career, but the transition may be tougher on the career.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

If you want to maximize chances of being a skipper, don't transition. If you know there isn't a chance in hell, just have fun. Promotion rate to O-5 is pretty high for active folks, seems to be based on not dying or dry humping the XO's dog at a Hail and Bail on a DH tour, so timing a transitioning to get DH check in the block would help. However, ask all the S-3 XO's and CO's of hornet squadrons when the perfect time to transition is... I can't imagine being the nuggety XO of a Hornet squadron with less than 100 hours in T/M/S, tactically scary.

 

[insanebikerboy]

I can't imagine being the nuggety XO of a Hornet squadron with less than 100 hours in T/M/S, tactically scary.

Brings up the interesting point about the former HC guys now getting close to rolling in to XO/CO tours in the HS/HSC land. Makes one wonder about and compare the experience level in the tactical environment (compared to just vertreping and sar) when some may have less time in model than their JO's.

 

[HooverPilot]

Along the same vein as Make Vapes spoke about, being a new transition at the DH level wouldn't work so well either. You don't want to compete as a nugget DH against the Level IV/V Strike Lead DH. Realistically, the earlier in your career, the better. The front office needs to support you, so your performance before applying for the transition really count. Your community also has to agree to let you go.

 

[porw0004]

Thanks for all the great feedback and information, it's much appreciated.

My wife and I recently had what we were told were relatively certain career/location expectations pulled out from under our feet, but that's military service and we both knew what we were getting into. Our main desire was to make an attempt at homesteading somewhere on the west coast for some pretty deep personal reasons, though that is almost not an option in our future community. We're in the proccess of trying to figure out what duty stations, career paths, and general options may be available to us in the future, and a transition is just one of many we've discussed. If ya'll have more pertinant information on the topic, please keep it coming. I'm a sponge.

Reading the above posts raised another question for me. Am I correct in understanding that it's technically possible to apply for a transfer at any time, even mid-tour?

I understand that, whatever we decide, our best weapon in making it happen is performing to the best of our ability, maintaining a positive attitude, and loving life regardless of where we are. That won't be a problem.

Thanks again for all the responses.

... dry humping the XO's dog at a Hail and Bail on a DH tour ...

That seems too specific to just be a randomly generated situation... there a story behind that one?

 

[BigIron]

I wouldn't transfer mid tour. Most mid tour guys are still working on their aircraft commander qualifications in their TMS. If you don't have that yet, bad time to ask. Your squadron is going to want you to get your aircraft commander / mission commander qualification and do a cruise / deployment in that capacity. You were billeted to them with the expectation they were going to develop you and employ you for the 3 years. If you leave during that tour, you are going to create a manning problem.

I like your last statement of making the best out of what you get. You will need to rely on that statement many times over in this business. Most guys I know that transitioned did so during their first shore tour (really an initial obligation).

My thoughts.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

That seems too specific to just be a randomly generated situation... there a story behind that one?

I think if my roomate during JO cruise (after a bottle of Absolute) would have been permitted to continue french kissing the Husky, it may have ended up there... He got duck taped to a plastic lawn chair, and was eating muscles at Harpoon Larry's shell and all later that night... doesn't remember a thing.

GREAT AMERICAN.
//threadjack complete.

 

[Pags]

Brings up the interesting point about the former HC guys now getting close to rolling in to XO/CO tours in the HS/HSC land. Makes one wonder about and compare the experience level in the tactical environment (compared to just vertreping and sar) when some may have less time in model than their JO's.

Meh. They still have plenty of flight time, it's just a matter of learning a new mission set, which isn't that hard when you already know how to fly the aircraft. As an example, the CO of HSC-9 is a prior HC guy. The same could be said for COs of HSC(exp) squadrons that now have armed helos or are doing the Air Ambulance mission. They seem to be managing. When you come back as a DH you'll have to learn the 60S. Sure, it's the same basic airframe, but the glass cockpit will take some getting used to, especially when the fleet goes to PCOSI.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Meh. They still have plenty of flight time, it's just a matter of learning a new mission set, which isn't that hard when you already know how to fly the aircraft. As an example, the CO of HSC-9 is a prior HC guy. The same could be said for COs of HSC(exp) squadrons that now have armed helos or are doing the Air Ambulance mission. They seem to be managing. When you come back as a DH you'll have to learn the 60S. Sure, it's the same basic airframe, but the glass cockpit will take some getting used to, especially when the fleet goes to PCOSI.

Yeah, great points. It was a discussion some of us JO's had the other day, wondering about potential future XO/CO's that may have gotten their level 3 strike out the door sort of thing and then them coming back as a mission lead when they may or may not have even had a level III strike flight as the hac.

 

[SoxFan524]

Does the community transition process involve any formal application/board, or is it more governed by your fleet CO's recommendation/what the detailer has available?

 

[helolumpy]

Brings up the interesting point about the former HC guys now getting close to rolling in to XO/CO tours in the HS/HSC land. Makes one wonder about and compare the experience level in the tactical environment (compared to just vertreping and sar) when some may have less time in model than their JO's.

In HS we had that alot with Skippers (H-3 background) who were doing their first tour in the H-60 when some of the JO's and DH's had been flying for 3+ years.
Some didn't care to learn the systems and it showed. Some worked hard at learning the new airframe.
The mission was different since the H-60 transition brought along the HH-60H and the CSAR/NSW support mission.

The HS/HC = isn't much different from the HS H-3 to H-60 switch. You get a new airframe and pick up a new mission. Some CO's will get into the books and will make sure they can lead from the front, others will not.

But to the original question

I understand that being able to screen for command and make an extended career after transfering communities is a crapshoot due to numerous factors beyond typical JO quals, though I haven't been able to find any mention of when transfering is "ideal". I would appreciate any feedback from those with first-hand, or at worst second-hand, knowledge about when it is possible to apply to another community.

Most people I know who transitioned applied during their first sea tour. You'll probably have to wait until the end because you'll want to have an EP going into the board. You probably won't get that until your near the end of your tour.
You go back to the school house (VT, HT, RAG, etc) and do all the training as your shore duty. If you can do it in a year, then your shore duty is only a year. If you go to VFA, the between flight school and the RAG, you can expect it to be around two years.

Once you complete flight school/RAG (again!) you do your second sea duty tour as a pilot in a fleet squadron.

The career impact is that while your contemporaries are getting competitive fitreps in the RAG/Flight School or whatever, you're getting NOBs.
When your contemporaries are getting time on a Flag Staff, CAG Staff, ships company, you're a 'first tour' JO again.

You may get a better ground job than the typical Level 1 guy, but your aircraft quals (which are very important) will be the same as those JG's fresh out of the RAG.

Friends who have done it were glad they transitioned, but they realized that they were shooting themselves in the foot career wise.

Good luck

 

[Recovering LSO]

Guess I'm a little confused with the question. Your profile suggests that you're still in the TRACOM? Have you selected your platform yet? Do you know you're gonna want out of what you get/got?

 

[porw0004]

Yes, I'm still in the TRACOM. No, I have no idea if after 3-4 years we'll want to get out of either platform that's still available to me. Right now my wife and I are just exploring any and all possibilities that are still available to us to best meet our goals. Just looking for information at this point. Any decisions to be made with that information are still a long way off.