Commissaries Closing?

[hscs]

Lets keep in mind that DoD is currently studying every possible way in which money could be saved. Accordingly, they have asked all of their associated agencies for various contingency plans to demonstrate all the possible "what ifs." So, just because DeCA has been asked to produce a plan to close X number of commissaries, doesn't mean DoD will execute that plan. It's essentially a data call to evaluate options.

Or that Congress will let DOD do this - DOD's budget is only a request - and then Congress gets to decide what they will fund.

I also think it is interesting that no one has brought up the point that the Exchange is not sucking money from the DOD, but the Commissary is…..a model for DECA?

 

[Renegade One]

Bad news for DoD to get into business with WalMart....

Why would this be any worse than all of the other "vendor agreements" that currently exist between DoD and Chick-Fil-A, Valvoline, Rice King, McDonalds, Subway, who knows how many else?

If Walmart doesn't think they'll make money in location X, then they won't bother with it.

I agree with RedFive: If it's mutually beneficial, they will come.

 

[jcj]

I'm guessing the press is pushing this in part to bring more attention to the effects of the sequester. For those who don't know (probably everyone here does), NEX related stuff is required to be self supporting, DECA (Commissary) is not as it is supported by appropriated funds.

One alternative would be to put out an RFP to outsource operation of the commissary system as a whole (either in CONUS or all) with specified need-based elements of performance to ensure the needs of our troops and families are met. For example, "shall maintain commissaries at remote bases such as Vance AFB" but perhaps not in San Diego - of course then will you increase BAS in San Diego since troops will be buying food on the local economy? And/or will purchasers on the local economy be tax exempt with a military ID?

The general rule is that the free market does better with routine commerce stuff than the government. Perhaps DECA is an exception. But I suppose it's worth asking the question as long as we can ensure that taking care of sailors/troops. which should still be the main priority of the commissary system, is still attended to.

 

[ea6bflyr]

The general rule is that the free market does better with routine commerce stuff than the government. Perhaps DECA is an exception. But I suppose it's worth asking the question as long as we can ensure that taking care of sailors/troops. which should still be the main priority of the commissary system, is still attended to.

You could say the same thing about the USPS v. FEDEX/UPS. Most branches of the government aren't in business to make a profit.

 

[jcj]

You could say the same thing about the USPS v. FEDEX/UPS. Most branches of the government aren't in business to make a profit.

Agreed, particularly with regard to governmental activities that don't bring in revenue and can't be structured to be self-supporting - such as fire and police protection. These activities are almost always purely tax supported and the obligation of government leaders is to be lawful and efficient with the tax revenue collected to support these activities.

Other governmental activities bring in revenue and can be expected to be partially or fully self supporting. Public works (with water and sewer fees), EMS (ambulance fees) and government owned recreation venues (golf courses, swimming pools) are examples. At the federal level, USPS is a good example (now a separate federal "quasi-agency"). Of course USPS is the prototype of our esteemed Congress trying to run a business, as it continues to hemorrhage cash because Congress has mandated a specific level of service but restricts the ability for USPS to charge what is necessary to fund the level of service demanded by Congress. There are some interesting business arrangements now where USPS & FedEx packages are crossing over into each others systems, and I believe I recently read that FedEx wants to expand to Sunday delivery and they are looking at contracting with USPS to use the USPS infrastructure to do it.

In the military support sector, the exchange & DECA systems are interesting contrasts.

The exchange systems (AAFES, NEX, MCEX), are not dependent on appropriated funds & must break even to stay alive. Since they don't depend on appropriated funds, they don't have to reduce hours due to the sequester & don't have to shut down for the gov't shutdown.

DECA receives appropriated funds (although it also of course collects revenue from sales). For the most part, the role of DECA is to run grocery stores. With the possible exception of OCONUS bases and remote bases, you just can't make a sensible argument that running a grocery store is an inherently necessary government function. I'd probably buy that the government needs to run or assist with running a grocery store (commissary) on GTMO, but I just don't buy the argument that it's an absolutely necessary government function in San Diego, San Antonio, Pensacola or Millington. I don't know about "safe" forward deployed places like Japan - but they deserve a look.

I'm also not advocating a strict "government shouldn't do it if private industry can" position either. As a state university surgeon and medical school professor I'm a government employee (have been in one role or another all of my adult life). A private entity could provide the service my government employer does but so far none has stepped up to the plate so here I am.

I'm just saying let's look at the system & maybe send out an RFP to see if someone who does groceries for a living on a much larger scale than DECA can provide the same service at a lower cost than is currently being done using a government agency to do what is usually a civilian business. If the answer is yes, great. use the $ saved for something to improve the QOL of our sailors & families. If not, keep DECA & just accept that we'll have to subsidize DECA as the cost of doing business to ensure that our sailors & families have someplace decent to shop at places like GTMO & Vance where they probably won't find a Fresh Market just outside the gate.

 

[insanebikerboy]

My rant isn't as much about the commissaries closing as it is on the overall benefits arguments going on right now. It's surprising to see the talk in cutting back benefits in an all volunteer military when we've been driven into the ground over the past decade on work-ups, deployments, etc. I realize that it's harder on the boys in green and acu, but still. Now the DoD is saying possible cuts to bah, little-to-no pay increase, and increasing payments in Tricare.

I'm a realist and I understand that there is a budget that needs to be balanced but should it be at the expense of what folks are getting paid? Talk about a retention and recruitment nightmare just waiting to happen.

 

[Pags]

I don't know about "safe" forward deployed places like Japan - but they deserve a look.

As I said in another thread, commissaries and exchanges should go away in CONUS. OCONUS, they're useful in providing American goods. Being overseas already has plenty of hardship, not being able to get normal western baby food, formula, diapers, beer, and food would make it even harder. It's one thing if you can live normally off the economy, it's another thing if you have to change your entire diet to live off the economy.

 

[PropAddict]

Now the DoD is saying possible cuts to bah, little-to-no pay increase, and increasing payments in Tricare.

I'm a realist and I understand that there is a budget that needs to be balanced but should it be at the expense of what folks are getting paid? Talk about a retention and recruitment nightmare just waiting to happen.

Collectively, we can't keep spending the way we have and expect budget woes to improve. Somebody's ox has to be gored.

I'm okay with it being mine/ours, but I'd also like to see some other programs/departments share some of the burden.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Collectively, we can't keep spending the way we have and expect budget woes to improve. Somebody's ox has to be gored.

I'm okay with it being mine/ours, but I'd also like to see some other programs/departments share some of the burden.

That's basically my point. Other programs and departments need to take some cuts before they start taking pay and benefits from the sailors.

 

[Spekkio]

Collectively, we can't keep spending the way we have and expect budget woes to improve. Somebody's ox has to be gored.

Closing the commissary isn't 'goring the ox.' It's taking away his food that costs less than 1% of your budget.

I don't get why whenever cuts come up, the first thing to be considered are high QOL impact but low cost services. Probably because they're the easiest to adjust thanks to a slew of bloated contracts that cannot be changed.

I recently bought a laptop and came across a sagacious piece of advice: "There is no such thing as future-proofing your technology." The DOD needs to learn this. It probably would have been cheaper to redesign an aircraft or ship that fits our needs now once every 10 years instead of try to build a super modular, master of all trades platform for the next 30 years at the cost of hundreds of billions of cost overages.

 

[hscs]

^
Not sure you get it - the sequestration number being chased is so large that everything is on the table.

 

[Hozer]

Here in Jax on Saturday, the commissary started electronically scanning all ID cards before your purchase. Seems like it's metrics gathering time.

Probably an excellent time to start the pool on filthy retiree vs. active-duty commissary use.

 

[The Chief]

Where will all the retirees go on Saturday morning?

Bingo. The real issue in 60 % of DoD’s budget. 60 years ago when I joined the Navy there were proposals to do away with the NEX (then newly established) and the Commissaries. Today “they” are still talking the same talk, no action.
I believe all dependent activities, a huge apparatus, should be eliminated. Get out of the business of exchanges and commissaries. Get out of the business of running huge dependent housing. Eliminate special pay for married folks, pay them the same as everyone else. You get transferred to Japan and want to bring your wife and 3 rug rats, sure, but on your own nickel, else leave them at home. All dependents into Obamacare.
Retirees. Obscene. Dude retires at half his salary at 34 and has about 50 years of shopping in commissaries, exchange and clogging up the Health Care system, to the detriment of active duty folks. Not only the retiree but also any and all dependents. After being retired some 40 or 50 years, that same dude marries a trophy wife of 34 year of age and she gets to look forward to 50 years of so of taxpayer subsidized shopping and free health care. Put them all in Obamacare. Let them shop at Bloomingdales or Nordstrom.

Double or triple the pay for active duty personnel. Issue solved. Next issue?

My .02 cents worth based on own personal experience and observations along the way.

 

[jcj]

That's basically my point. Other programs and departments need to take some cuts before they start taking pay and benefits from the sailors.

Agree

From a purely fiscal standpoint, cutting DOD back to a level similar to pre WW 2 that is essentially a mostly reserve force with a small AD cadre designed to respond to a direct attack on the US, with a minimal global forward deployed presence still isn't nearly enough to get the national budget back in the right direction. nor do I think anyone who thinks reasonably would think that's a viable option. To move our country forward is going to take a strategy well beyond defense cuts - It will require both growth and smart reductions in spending that doesn't make sense - like the waste that's in my own area of work (health care). We are also going to have to ask serious questions about if we can still fund entitlements at the rate we are now. Regardless of past entitlement intent or promises, if the money runs out, it runs out.

But as far as defense, we will have to make some seriously hard decisions. (my $0.02) the right answer is that we must maintain a forward deployable global strike/deterrence capability, as it's critical to the defense of our homeland and the defense of our allies. On the other hand, it's time we let the rest of the world know we aren't here to be Team America, World Police and we expect the rest of world to step up with us (and thanks to our allies who already have) when rouge actors have to be taken out with military force.

But every $ counts, and some of those questions will be unpopular - like does DOD need to run grocery stores in CONUS or can we outsource that? Do we need 4 camo patterns with all the R & D costs or can we select the best & all branches use it? Can we get past the problems and actually do joint basing when feasible (apparently Dix/McGuire is looking at un-jointing because the Army and Air Force run their bases too differently) - I'm sorry but to a (now) well educated (MBA) civilian, veteran strongly supportive of the military that just sounds like a BS decision I'd like to hear justified to a group of business execs who have to make payroll twice a month. Even in DOD, a million (or billion) here, a million there & pretty soon we're talking real money.

 

[helolumpy]

For those who don't know (probably everyone here does), NEX related stuff is required to be self supporting, DECA (Commissary) is not as it is supported by appropriated funds.

Just to add a fact, the Exchange does get some funding from the DOD but only to defray the cost of overseas shipping. Otherwise, it's a self-supporting enterprise.