Commissaries Closing?

[Flash]

To answer a couple questions.....The bottom line continues to be, can you close the commissary and restructure the BAS payments in order to provide the service member with the SAME LEVEL of benefit they recieve now? And do it at a cheaper price tag than $1.4B. My argument is no. And frankly I don't trust the government budget office to make it happen.

You are assuming that most servicemembers actually patronize commissaries, I would be interested to see what percentage of servicemembers actually shop at the commissaries now and how much they actually save. I am willing to bet the amount DECA claims to save patrons includes an awful lot of retirees, cutting the amount we have to plow back into paying active duty members.

2. Flash, am I hearing that dependents shouldn't be allowed to shop at the commissary from you? Is that your argument? Sounds reasonable. I mean when the military member is away for 6 months, his or her spouse should be required to go out in town and pay higher grocery prices. In the words of Chris Carter... "Come on Man!"

I am arguing for the elimination of domestic commissaries so in effect, yes. Cutting them out right now? I never said that. Calling them members of the military? Absurd.
"Can you understand the words coming out of my mouth?"

3. Eliminate BAS for officers: Are we (officers) all fine with taking a $2,900 pay cut next year? Just want to make sure I'm clear on this.

If phased out over a few years and in line with the pay raises we always get, yes. Does the average, or even the vast majority, of officers need that extra little bit for food each month?

4. Personnel costs: They are increasing. That is a fact. But not as fast as the military budget. I think BzB posted a link to the navy times article showing the numbers. So the personnel costs as a percentage of the budget are actually decreasing.

With the ballooning defense budget of the past decade that may be the case but likely will soon not be. While procurement and ops & maintenance funding will likely decrease we are obligated to many of the personnel costs to include retirement and health care will continue to rise because the obligations set in law and not the yearly defense budget.

No one here has been able to show how you eliminate the commissary, save $1.4B, and not increase cost on the average service member.

Conversely you can’t prove your counter-argument either since we don't record how much every individual saves or even who actually shops at commissaries. We have to take DECA at its word and they are fighting for their very survival. How do you even know that the 'average' servicemember even patronizes the commissary?

I personally believe that things like the mismanagement of programs like JSF, which is woefully over budget and behind schedule, is a much better target than the pockets of sailors.

So again, should cuts happen to military pay, or to procurement?

Cutting the defense budget isn't an either or proposition , everything should be looked at. Just because some weapons programs may cost more than projected or be poorly run doesn't excuse other part of the budget from being looked as well. We have long had some sacred cows in as part of the DoD budget that are anachronistic and should be looked at, not just the ones that make the news.

 

[Spekkio]

With the ballooning defense budget of the past decade that may be the case but likely will soon not be. While procurement and ops & maintenance funding will likely decrease we are obligated to many of the personnel costs to include retirement and health care will continue to rise because the obligations set in law and not the yearly defense budget.

Under worst-case budget analysis (sequestriation continues and no budget gets approved or the budget is in-line with sequestriation numbers), the Navy will only be able to procure one ship by 2050. Under best case, Congress gives DoD the budget they want and there's no problem at all to get money. Truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

[ProwlerPilot]

Look, we can have this circular argument until the end of time. Do service members use the commissary? Yes. How many.... don't know. But from my experience, I know of a lot of current military active duty who do and by the influx of traffic on the 1st and 15th, I'm guessing that is a large population of active families making ends meet. Not just the retirement home field trip of Vietnam Vets you all seem to be insisting are the main customers.

Bottom line is I don't think that benefits should be cut from the current military pay structure. I don't believe that the military is currently being overpayed (bonuses not withstanding) and I don't believe that reducing service member benefits is a better option than exploring waste in procurement and project management areas. I understand it is not a this OR that argument, but until you prove to me that the rest of the military is operating at high fiscal efficiency, I think member pay and benefits should be the last to be cut. Reduce the pay increases perhaps, but do not increase cost on members.

Some of you disagree and have no problem with reducing the overall benefit package of the military. That is fine. We will agree to disagree.

I'm going to go enjoy my commissary purchased turkey and stuffing. Then buy a beer with the money I saved. Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[DanMa1156]

Bottom line is I don't think that benefits should be cut from the current military pay structure. I don't believe that the military is currently being overpayed (bonuses not withstanding) and I don't believe that reducing service member benefits is a better option than exploring waste in procurement and project management areas.

Agreed and well said. Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa, let's get one thing straight...

In the words of Chris Carter... "Come on Man!"

"Can you understand the words coming out of my mouth?"

Pretty sure you mean Chris Tucker.

 

[ProwlerPilot]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa, let's get one thing straight...




Pretty sure you mean Chris Tucker.

Actually, I was going for Chris Carter from the NFL pre-game show... But Chris Tucker works as well!

 

[Spekkio]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa, let's get one thing straight...




Pretty sure you mean Chris Tucker.

That movie was the first I saw of Chris Tucker and it took me several minutes to determine whether he was a he or a she. I think once he got with the flight attendant I settled on he, but still wasn't quite sure.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Navy Times article http://www.navytimes.com/article/20.../For-troops-commissaries-still-valued-benefit I wonder how accurate what the Staff Sgt said actually is? Can you really get meat for 1/4 to 1/2 the cost compared to out in town? for me that would mean getting lean ground beef for .85 to 1.70 per pound.

 

[Renegade One]

I understand it is not a this OR that argument, but until you prove to me that the rest of the military is operating at high fiscal efficiency, I think member pay and benefits should be the last to be cut. Reduce the pay increases perhaps, but do not increase cost on members.

Keep the pay increases, but lets have the NFDS transition from F/A-18s to T-45s.

BOOM! Problem solved…

 

[The Chief]

Just returned from a trip to Joint Base Henderson Hall - Ft. Myers Commissary. Seldom use the commissary but know that the Myers commissary has an outstanding meat department. Shopping for a cookout I was after 20 rib eye steaks of the Black Angus variety, something few local stores have, outside of the boutique butchers. Bought 25 pounds of rib eye for $10.05 a pound, custom cut to my specs. High end butcher would have been three times that price. So all meat is not created equal.

More to the point is the scanning of ID cards to find out exactly the ratio between active duty and retiree participants. I created a stir as my ID card, circa 1973 does not have a barcode ergo could not be scanned so the "powers at be" were called to deal with this anomaly. This afforded me the opportunity to discuss the scanning of the ID cards and what results are expected. To wit; tons of data. Not only AD/RET status but amount spent, in what categories, how often a patron, age group. DECA system wide (in CONUS only I was told). So the so called myth will soon be dealt with, soon, in time for budget considerations.

Chatting with the manager I offered my observation that today at least over 75% of patrons were of "retired" age. His reply was that currently the stats indicate 60% of commissary patrons are retirees. That equates to a retirement benefit.

 

[Spekkio]

Navy Times article http://www.navytimes.com/article/20.../For-troops-commissaries-still-valued-benefit I wonder how accurate what the Staff Sgt said actually is? Can you really get meat for 1/4 to 1/2 the cost compared to out in town? for me that would mean getting lean ground beef for .85 to 1.70 per pound.

Chicken breast, definitely. $1.90-ish a lb vs. $3.90 ish/lb. Probably why they usually run out by Thursday-Friday.

Steak is like 75% the price. I can find angus ribeye here for $10-12/lb in regular super markets and remember acquiring it for like $7-8/lb in commisaries. Interestingly and somewhat unrelated, beef is generally more expensive at Costco but chicken is cheaper. But their chicken loses 15% of its weight when thawed, so there's that, and the non-frozen kind is the same price as other supermarkets.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Chicken breast, definitely. $1.90-ish a lb vs. $3.90 ish/lb. Probably why they usually run out by Thursday-Friday.

Steak is like 75% the price. I can find angus ribeye here for $10-12/lb in regular super markets and remember acquiring it for like $7-8/lb in commisaries. Interestingly and somewhat unrelated, beef is generally more expensive at Costco but chicken is cheaper. But their chicken loses 15% of its weight when thawed, so there's that.

I may have to check the commissary near me for at least steak, that chicken price isn't really a savings as I get it for between 1.99 and 2.29 at the local grocery store(s).

 

[Spekkio]

Guess it all depends where one is stationed.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Guess it all depends where one is stationed.

very true, I still think commissaries in some place are needed, and in some places they are not.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Guess it all depends where one is stationed.

Was just about to write that. Don't think I ever went in San Diego/Miramar, and have been no more than 5 times at Oceana in the last couple years here. Went all the time in Meridian.....as it was normally a better selection than anything out in town. Have also used the Fallon commissary plenty during dets there, though that is more out of convenience than having a better spread than the Safeway/etc. But I do think it is highly dependent on what other options are out there. If you are an O, without a large family to support, you should have the excess funds at your disposal to not be coupon shopping or scraping by to save a couple bucks at the commissary. I also know guys who have 4 mouths to feed, who probably couldn't reasonably afford to always shop at Whole Foods or whatever else. Or some people just don't care to spend any more money than they absolutely have to on food. Same thing ya'll have been saying, but I agree. Personal choice, though I think it is still a perk that serves a useful purpose to a lot of folks