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CH-53K ground tests

ChuckMK23

Former H-46 Driver
pilot
"But Corps officials routinely argue that the correct way to look at the CH-53Ks cost is its recurring fly-away cost, which currently is hovering at $87 million per aircraft."

Heh...hovering.
That will be a challenge if only 200 aircraft will be procured. To get any sort of economy on fly away cost - Sikorsky need to sell at least 500... which means - Germany, Israel, Japan. Heavy lift is not viewed as strategic for Euro/NATO land warfare types - and what is procured is well in hand by state subsidied programs from Airbus, Leonardo, etc. Boeing learned that lesson with CH-47 and poor penetration in that market after investing heavily.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
That will be a challenge if only 200 aircraft will be procured. To get any sort of economy on fly away cost - Sikorsky need to sell at least 500... which means - Germany, Israel, Japan. Heavy lift is not viewed as strategic for Euro/NATO land warfare types - and what is procured is well in hand by state subsidied programs from Airbus, Leonardo, etc. Boeing learned that lesson with CH-47 and poor penetration in that market after investing heavily.
Is 500 a real number or just something you threw out?

Outside the US, there's probably not a requirement for 300 heavy lift helicopters in the entire world.
 

rotorhead1871

UH-1N.....NAS Agana, Guam....circa 1975
pilot
That will be a challenge if only 200 aircraft will be procured. To get any sort of economy on fly away cost - Sikorsky need to sell at least 500... which means - Germany, Israel, Japan. Heavy lift is not viewed as strategic for Euro/NATO land warfare types - and what is procured is well in hand by state subsidied programs from Airbus, Leonardo, etc. Boeing learned that lesson with CH-47 and poor penetration in that market after investing heavily.

the navy and japan should buy some too...but 200 is a good number, as --currently--the USMC has about 150 E's and the USN has 28. ..these are spendy airframes and with a low number buy.....no way will they sell 500.
 

rotorhead1871

UH-1N.....NAS Agana, Guam....circa 1975
pilot
yea, it looks like they got some issues, the big 3 engine config is dicy on the scale up from the E...its gonna need more tail rotor, as they didnt lengthen the boom....etc...etc....it has about the HP of a mi26, but is 30 ft shorter...rotor is 30% less diameter.....why?? I wonder what they were thinking ...when you look at the 26, it looks more efficient in using the HP....so why pack 23000 hp in a helo that has no where the capability of the 26?....either in speed or lifting capability. max gross of the K is 85000lbs...vs 123000 for the 26....at virtually the same power.....seems the K needs a bigger rotor....a longer boom.....for starters...to take advantage of its HP....or stop the HP game and use 2 of the GE38's!...as with 3 engines and a 79 ft rotor....they are truly on the backside of the power curve......maybe LM bought a pig in a poke...as they bought sikorsky to sell this airframe....time will tell!!!
 

ChuckMK23

Former H-46 Driver
pilot
yea, it looks like they got some issues, the big 3 engine config is dicy on the scale up from the E...its gonna need more tail rotor, as they didnt lengthen the boom....etc...etc....it has about the HP of a mi26, but is 30 ft shorter...rotor is 30% less diameter.....why?? I wonder what they were thinking ...when you look at the 26, it looks more efficient in using the HP....so why pack 23000 hp in a helo that has no where the capability of the 26?....either in speed or lifting capability. max gross of the K is 85000lbs...vs 123000 for the 26....at virtually the same power.....seems the K needs a bigger rotor....a longer boom.....for starters...to take advantage of its HP....or stop the HP game and use 2 of the GE38's!...as with 3 engines and a 79 ft rotor....they are truly on the backside of the power curve......maybe LM bought a pig in a poke...as they bought sikorsky to sell this airframe....time will tell!!!
I think the design is finalized at this stage and really the issues require plain old engineering iteration. A lot of these issues are material science related - from what I understand the core design itself is very solid. Considering the leap in power and lifting capacity this aircraft is very young in its design cycle.

As in a lot of revolutionary aircraft designs, running into the unplanned is inevitable. I think NAVAIR saw this which is why we ramped up production of the T64 - an engine not manufactured since the early 90's. The existing fleet of 53E's will be shouldering the load well after 2030.
 

rotorhead1871

UH-1N.....NAS Agana, Guam....circa 1975
pilot
I think the design is finalized at this stage and really the issues require plain old engineering iteration. A lot of these issues are material science related - from what I understand the core design itself is very solid. Considering the leap in power and lifting capacity this aircraft is very young in its design cycle.

As in a lot of revolutionary aircraft designs, running into the unplanned is inevitable. I think NAVAIR saw this which is why we ramped up production of the T64 - an engine not manufactured since the early 90's. The existing fleet of 53E's will be shouldering the load well after 2030.

yup....for sure the design is down the road. they are on task to solve the issues...as you say...if the new T64 installs go well , and the military is happy..... , but will each new engined negate the need for a K??? the whole 53 inventory sits around 230 airframes, and LM plans to sell 200 K models?? that may be tough!.....especially if the T64 ( 3000-3200hp).......works real good.....and the service is happy.....they can go nicely beyond 2030...time will tell.....
 

707guy

"You can't make this shit up..."
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