Career Progression via TPS

[rottweiler]

I've been lurking around google and this forum for a while now and am having trouble finding some of the answers I'm looking for. I'm a mechanical design engineer working for a small aerospace R&D company who recently took the ASTB for the first time (70/9/8/8) and is considering applying to naval or marine OCS under an aviation contract. I love my job- it pays well and it's a gearhead's dream- but I have an adventurous bent that I feel isn't being satisfied, and now that I've spent time exploring the career options for military pilots and spent a few hours behind the stick I can't stop daydreaming about flying.
I'm having trouble finding up to date or reliable information about monthly or per-tour flight hours in the navy and marine corps, particularly for fighter and helo peeps. The the recruiters I talked to don't know, and the pilots I've spoken to either haven't winged or are too old to answer accurately. I don't really need an exact monthly rate, but am I justified in hoping to have enough MWS flight hours by the end of my first tour to apply to TPS, or is that something jet pilots these days have to wait until their third tour or second contract to do? The navy website encourages people to apply after their JO tour, but I'm also hearing most jet guys aren't hitting the quota by that point.

 

[croakerfish]

It would be tough to predict that for you in any case, regardless of current numbers. Keep in mind even if you hit the wickets for TPS there are a lot of other factors that play in to whether or not you can get it, some of which are out of your control.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

I've been lurking around google and this forum for a while now and am having trouble finding some of the answers I'm looking for. I'm a mechanical design engineer working for a small aerospace R&D company who recently took the ASTB for the first time (70/9/8/8) and is considering applying to naval or marine OCS under an aviation contract. I love my job- it pays well and it's a gearhead's dream- but I have an adventurous bent that I feel isn't being satisfied, and now that I've spent time exploring the career options for military pilots and spent a few hours behind the stick I can't stop daydreaming about flying.
I'm having trouble finding up to date or reliable information about monthly or per-tour flight hours in the navy and marine corps, particularly for fighter and helo peeps. The the recruiters I talked to don't know, and the pilots I've spoken to either haven't winged or are too old to answer accurately. I don't really need an exact monthly rate, but am I justified in hoping to have enough MWS flight hours by the end of my first tour to apply to TPS, or is that something jet pilots these days have to wait until their third tour or second contract to do? The navy website encourages people to apply after their JO tour, but I'm also hearing most jet guys aren't hitting the quota by that point.

Unpopular opinion perhaps, but maybe focus more on the application portion and less on something that's years down the road?

 

[Uncle Fester]

@rottweiler The reason you’re having trouble finding useful info is isn’t much anyone could tell you now that would be of any use. The kind of stuff you’re asking about changes all the time and it’s nearly impossible to predict what it’ll be six months from now, let alone by the time someone in your position actually got to the Fleet.

I can tell you that TPS mostly wants to see that you can hack the academics. Flight hours matter less than a reputation as a good stick, good fitreps and a solid STEM grounding.

 

[sevenhelmet]

I wouldn’t get bogged down in minutiae just yet.

OP, even if you don’t have the quals/hours at the end of your first tour, there are some amazing jobs you can get into such as operational test, to continue building flight experience and building inroads to the flight test community. Many TPS grads didn’t get in on their first look (I applied 3 times before I got in), so flight hours isn’t something to sweat, especially before you’ve started flight school. The military and aviation industry needs good pilots and engineering test pilots, so if you stay focused and look for opportunities, you can get there. You’ll have a ton of mentorship and chances to succeed along the way.

I’d go for it.

Good luck!

 

[Meyerkord]

I'm having trouble finding up to date or reliable information about monthly or per-tour flight hours in the navy and marine corps, particularly for fighter and helo peeps

What others have said is true. This stuff changes all the time. But I’ll give you a data point from my personal experience.

I’m an HSM guy (helos). While home and not deployed I get about 15-20 hr/mo. My CVN deployment I averaged 30 hr/mo. And underway on CRUDES I averaged around 45 hr/mo.

These numbers will vary drastically depending on your mission, location, airframe, and what’s going on in your area.

I’ll be leaving my first tour between 900-1000 total flight hours.

 

[IKE]

The 1,000-hour requirement for TPS is 100% waiverable and often is. TPS applicants compete against other pilots/NFOs in the same community with the same general flight-hour opportunities. The Navy and the TPS selection board understand 1,000 hours may not always be achievable by the end of your first sea tour.

TPS is awesome, but you should Fly Navy because launching/landing gray aircraft from gray ships is fun AF (sorry-not-sorry MPRA). Even if you're a rock star, TPS selection can be highly timing dependent.

 

[KODAK]

We had two very nice folks from TPS come down to Norfolk for a show-and-tell in a Lakota some years ago, and they made it very clear that getting the number 1 or 2 FITREP mattered as much or even more than flight time/ quals/ etc. Remember that following TPS and a test tour you are committing to return to you TMS as a DH, and ensuring the folks who are chosen to be test pilot can return and be competitive (with at least one FITREP cycles away from the pack during TPS) is a large part of the otherwise nebulous decision making process. And to give another data point, an MPRA friend (who I think would be an awesome pick) has applied something like 5 times and still has not been picked up - he now plans to get out, and it’s ironic that his “timing” is the thinly-veiled reason he isn’t being picked up when the end result is the Navy will lose out on a great test pilot and DH.

 

[OscarMyers]

We had two very nice folks from TPS come down to Norfolk for a show-and-tell in a Lakota some years ago, and they made it very clear that getting the number 1 or 2 FITREP mattered as much or even more than flight time/ quals/ etc. Remember that following TPS and a test tour you are committing to return to you TMS as a DH, and ensuring the folks who are chosen to be test pilot can return and be competitive (with at least one FITREP cycles away from the pack during TPS) is a large part of the otherwise nebulous decision making process. And to give another data point, an MPRA friend (who I think would be an awesome pick) has applied something like 5 times and still has not been picked up - he now plans to get out, and it’s ironic that his “timing” is the thinly-veiled reason he isn’t being picked up when the end result is the Navy will lose out on a great test pilot and DH.

Its crazy how much TPS class selection ebbs and flows with the demand signal from VX squadrons. Class sizes are fixed and squadrons vie for seats based on their projected needs almost two years out (Board + PCS + pre-arrival training + 11 months class = Tester}. That projection is based on test programs coming down the pipe. OBTW the ramping up of UX-24 and a stronger demand signal for UAV test is competing for traditional Pilot/NFO seats.

I guess that's a long way of saying that sustained superior timing and top performer wins the day. The other side of that though is I've seen E-2 NFO's be one selected of one applied...

 

[IKE]

... And to give another data point, an MPRA friend (who I think would be an awesome pick) has applied something like 5 times and still has not been picked up - he now plans to get out, and it’s ironic that his “timing” is the thinly-veiled reason he isn’t being picked up when the end result is the Navy will lose out on a great test pilot and DH.

I was with you until this.

A few years back, the Test community got fed up with poor ROI on test pilots. In one particular case, an applicant adamantly stated on their signed application that they would turn down DH if selected for TPS, then they didn't, and the test squadron only got him for a 9-month test tour after sending him through 48 weeks of TPS + pre-training + PCS/FRS delays. Combine that with PERS-43's attack on typical shore tour lengths, and the Test community has reacted by requiring selectees have no less than 24 months between TPS graduation and DH NLT timing (Sep of FYxx), preferably 36 months.

Yes, this has reduced opportunity for some folks and selectivity for certain communities (cough, NFOs, cough), but I can tell you HSC/HSM regularly have double-digit applicants (per community), almost all of whom could hack the schoolhouse and would make great TPs, but we only get 1-2 slots per board because H-60 isn't F-35 or UAS.

Understand the timing requirement also benefits selectees when it comes to moving families(not all test is in Pax River) and DAWIA certifications (2 years is required for T&E Foundational).

 

[Gatordev]

I’m an HSM guy (helos). While home and not deployed I get about 15-20 hr/mo.

I’ll be leaving my first tour between 900-1000 total flight hours.

Your homeguard hours are a little higher than they were a couple of years ago. Any idea if that's because of your EXPED status or are your buds on the sea wall seeing those same numbers?

Interestingly, your total time seems to match what's been "the norm" for quite some time (~800 hours in model).

 

[Meyerkord]

Your homeguard hours are a little higher than they were a couple of years ago. Any idea if that's because of your EXPED status or are your buds on the sea wall seeing those same numbers?

Interestingly, your total time seems to match what's been "the norm" for quite some time (~800 hours in model).

I’m not sure specifically how much they’re getting at homeguard but my total is slightly on the higher side versus my peers because I’ve spent a fair chunk underway. I feel like a lot of them are leaving somewhere in the 800s