CAL *Express* strands pax for nearly 6 hours .... ???

[A4sForever]

USA Today: Did flight stuck on tarmac break law???

Tarmac ordeal renews push for fliers 'rights'

Flight from IAH-MSP .... WX divert in the middle of the night into RST because of CB's in/around MSP. I'm guessin' that CAL/CAL Express (XJT) or anyone else, for that matter, didn't have ground personnel available @ RST to provide any pax services ... in spite of being the life-line for the Mayo Clinic ... the airport is basically shut down during the darkest part of the clock .... sooooooooo .... you're stuck on an RJ overnight for 5+ hours .... ???

Lack of ground/support personnel: another good reason to avoid Commuter Airlines/RJ's ...

 

[IRfly]

When I first read about this, it made me wonder what kind of special power the airlines have to detain people on a plane. I understand that the plane commander is responsible for the safety of the plane, but forcing people to sit on a grounded plane for seven hours (or longer, in some cases)...How can the airline/flight crew just force everyone to stay? What would happen, for instance, if I were to just say "Screw you, I want off"? To refuse to allow someone off the plane sounds alot like kidnapping. Is there some special law that applies here?

 

[ACowboyinTexas]

Never forget the concept of "Maintenance Minutes" and it becomes more understandable. If those in charge knew at the outset that the delay would be 5+ hours, they might have figured something out. When that 5+ hours consists of 10 "Expect a half hour delay" calls, the decision gets tougher.
Like A4s says, avoid the puddle-jumpers between legs if you can. When I can, I drive or fly my own for anything less 500 miles. If you do get stuck, try to fight the urge to say, "Screw you. I want off"! Otherwise you'll learn pretty quick about the 'special laws' that apply there.

 

[Schnugg]

I heard it had to do with no TSA people on duty at the terminal.

 

[A4sForever]

I heard it had to do with no TSA people on duty at the terminal.

Naaaaaaah ... it shouldn't have been a TSA issue (they COULD have used local cops were there a passenger security problem) unless they were going to leave the 'secure area' and then return and reboard, but that doesn't appear to have been the problem in this incident. In any case, they COULD have just bussed 'em overland to MSP from RST -- a relative piece of cake at @ 75 miles with 50+/- pax -- and that's what NWA/DAL did w/ another flight of pax the same night/morning. It still looks like a case of CAL/XJT airline personnel dropping the ball and not having enough experience nor the resources to get the job done.

It's the difference between flying big-boy airlines and boys-with-toys airlines.

Update: Federal Officials Condemn Continental Express Delay ...

 

[scoolbubba]

Sounds like a complete lack of common sense on the part of the crew, but they had to be talking to some type of corporate control, though, right? Where does the decision to deplane/reboard get made with something like this?

 

[A4sForever]

.... Where does the decision to deplane/reboard get made with something like this?

Dispatch, OPCON, the airport personnel, and the cockpit crew putting their heads together ....

Personal experience -- when the first three didn't 'do it' -- make decisions -- I would'do it' as the Captain & the last (sometimes the best?) defender of the pax ... especially since most of my flyin' was in the PAC/ORIENT and the gaijin-devil (me) was frequently the ONLY one who would make decisions/take responsibility.

You have to walk/talk/chew gum ... and fly, too. That's why I had 4 stripes ... and that's what they paid me & my Amigos to do ... :captain_1

 

[Uncle Fester]

Sounds like a fine example of standing around waiting for someone else to make a decision. A bunch of "I don't have the authority/that's not my department" hand-wringing, and another blow to the principle of 'doing something wrong now is better than doing the right thing too late'.

I'm no businessman, but it seems like there was no possible consequence to letting the passengers off in the terminal that would have been worse than the outcome they did get - fifty pissed-off customers, FAA attention, and a national news story that makes CAL look like completely incompetent assholes.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Another heart warming story about kids flying RJs...

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

Well with all this bad publicity lately for regionals maybe they'll start to go away.

One can only hope.

 

[A4sForever]

I forgot to mention another one of the 'decision makers' that insert themselves into the loop on occasion -- marketing, a.k.a. the BEANCOUNTERS. But in my experience, those pilots foolish enough to make final aviation decisions based on the input from the marketing types usually came to grief. Some got time off -- a couple of Chief Pilots were 'promoted horizontally' or ' early retired' -- and a couple of guys simply got fired after the FAA came in and said: "WTF did you do THAT for ... ???? MARKETING wanted the plane WHERE ... ??? LET ME SEE YOUR TICKET !!!!"

Sounds like a fine example of standing around waiting for someone else to make a decision. A bunch of "I don't have the authority/that's not my department" hand-wringing, and another blow to the principle of 'doing something wrong now is better than doing the right thing too late'.

I'm no businessman, but it seems like there was no possible consequence to letting the passengers off in the terminal that would have been worse than the outcome they did get - fifty pissed-off customers, FAA attention, and a national news story that makes CAL look like completely incompetent assholes.

Roger that ... and since you mentioned it -- decision making -- I've found over the past 40 years of flying that military trained individuals -- military pilots/Aviators from the USN/USMC/USAF -- usually made the best decisions when called upon ... so take that invaluable experience YOU'RE getting at such a young age in the USN and profit from it -- hopefully for the rest of your life.

I'm talkin' about the decisions that HAVE to be made that aren't in the 'books' ... not in the 'checklists' ... and it's the reason, pure & simple, than so many in management HATE the pilots. We're the 'operators' ... the 'doers' ... and all too often, they are not ...

 

[rondebmar]

Roger that ... and since you mentioned it -- decision making -- I've found over the past 40 years of flying that military trained individuals -- military pilots/Aviators from the USN/USMC/USAF -- usually made the best decisions when called upon ... so take that invaluable experience YOU'RE getting at such a young age in the USN and profit from it -- hopefully for the rest of your life.

I'm talkin' about the decisions that HAVE to be made that aren't in the 'books' ... not in the 'checklists' ... and it's the reason, pure & simple, than so many in management HATE the pilots. We're the 'operators' ... the 'doers' ... and all too often, they are not ...

 

[gonad]

Another heart warming story about kids flying RJs...

She should lose her ATP. Whatever the case with dispatch, etc.. it was her aircraft and her ethical responsibility for the well-being of the pax.
However, word on the street is that the company and union are behind the crew 100%.

But maybe her decision was based on the same logic to get a 0 to hero $100+ loan for a $20k/year job

 

[CumminsPilot]

-- decision making -- I've found over the past 40 years of flying that military trained individuals -- military pilots/Aviators from the USN/USMC/USAF -- usually made the best decisions when called upon ... so take that invaluable experience YOU'RE getting at such a young age in the USN and profit from it -- hopefully for the rest of your life.

I'm talkin' about the decisions that HAVE to be made that aren't in the 'books' ... not in the 'checklists' ... and it's the reason, pure & simple, than so many in management HATE the pilots. We're the 'operators' ... the 'doers' ... and all too often, they are not ...

I have zero experience operating in the fleet. I am a lowly TBS Lieutenadate. BUT, I can see the non-decision making in my "peers" outside of the military, and ESPECIALLY looking back on the 4 years I spent working in industry and it now amazes me. People are SCARED to do anything! Right or wrong, they just don't act. I can't believe I was like that once! It bothers me now. I rarely make the "right" decision here, but I am no longer afraid to act. I'm very glad I made the choice I did and am getting that experience for my future.

 

[FrankTheTank]

ExpressJet Crew Not at Fault in Ramp Delay

http://public.alpa.org/portals/alpa/fastread/2009/jumpstories/8-21-09story1.htm#jump