C vs. E/F

[Jim123]

So a 1 of 20 in an F squadron would be better looking than a 10 of 20 in an E squadron, regardless of what collateral duties they held? I think that I do have some incorrect preconceptions. Thanks for responding

(Navy) Fitrep rankings vs collateral duties can be a chicken-and-the-egg deal. If your command really likes the work you do, then you are more likely to get assigned more difficult and prestigious collateral duties, which then give you a much better chance at getting a better fitrep ranking... not always, but that's usually how it works.


As far as what the promotion board care most about on fitreps, there are two big things:

One is your average (think of that like a GPA) compared to the average of all of the fitreps that your CO wrote in that "competitive category." For what you're asking, the means all of the pilots and NFOs of the same rank in the same squadron all get grouped together, but LDOs (for example) are in a separate category. This "reporting senior's average" cancels out the effects of easy graders and hard graders (kinda like how NSS is intended, if that helps make sense).

The other is the very first and very last bullets. These always sound positive and glowing, but things like "MY #1 OF 20 HIGHLY COMPETITIVE LTS!!/LT SO-IN-SO HAS MY STRONGEST POSSIBLE RECOMMENDATION FOR [hugely important career milestone]," those bullets mean a lot, while something like "Absolutely has command potential" is faint, damning praise.


All those other bullets about your awesome quals and flight hours, number of bad guys killed, how the job you did on the big inspection made it so your squadron beat all of the other squadrons... all those bullets that guys spend so much time and effort to write... uh, they're, um... important... sure... yup. But you still gotta write them because you can't just put crap there or write nothing at all.

 

[helolumpy]

So a 1 of 20 in an F squadron would be better looking than a 10 of 20 in an E squadron, regardless of what collateral duties they held? I think that I do have some incorrect preconceptions. Thanks for responding

To echo what everyone else has said, how well you compare against your peers in your squadron is everything. You can be the #1 of 3 and it's still a #1. (Obviously a #1 of 20 may carry slightly more weight than a #1 of 3, but a #1 of 3 trumps a #3 of 20).

Then as Jim123 said, you want the #1 "EP" to have a score higher than the Reporting Seniors Average for that CO. This says you are the #1 guy at the time and compared to every other FitRep he has written, you are at or near the top.

When collateral duties may come into play is when you are getting briefed in the Tank for a board. If you carry some significant collateral duties, it might be seen as a tie breaker compared to another pilot from another squadron who has a similar record.

My advice is don't sweat the Collateral Duties, work your butt off to get your quals quickly and then work to get the top jobs in the squadron. That primary ground job is FAR more important than Collateral Duties.

 

[statesman]

Please, educate me then. I'm going off of the lack of opt-out for DH along with a brief from PERS-4 actual.

DH bonus for 1310 staying at 25k per year seem to suggest VFA is trying to keep folks on. Certainly more than say VP which is 10k / yr.

 

[Recovering LSO]

I would advise a 10 of 20 in any kind of squadron to start considering some post-Navy career options.

Eh, VFA is hurting so bad for folks it probably won't matter.

Please, educate me then. I'm going off of the lack of opt-out for DH along with a brief from PERS-4 actual.

A shitty highwater FITREP (10 of 20 would be that) will not carry water regardless of the manning issues TODAY. The shortages of people today will be excesses in two years. Excesses today will be shortages in another few years.

To suggest that failing to earn a competitive highwater FITREP from first sea tour is ok - well, that's bad gouge.

 

[squorch2]

I don't have the PERS-4 slides in front of me, but the manning issues did not look like they were getting any better all the way through YG10... That being said, no one is arguing that a 10 of 20 highwater is great, but it may not be the dreamkiller either.

 

[EODDave]

The problem is not in making DH for VFA types as we are short of O4's. The problem for today is getting guys promoted to O4 with a shitty first sea tour high water fitrep. I know several that left with number 1 MP and they did not screen for O4. If you made O4 as a VFA type you will be some type of DH or of you say no, you will be asked to leave. There is no longer any slop for guys that make O4 but dont want to be a DH in VFA land.

 

[MasterBates]

The reduced opportunity for LCDR is going to have interesting effects in some communities.

The guys who were my YG in HSL were leaving with far less than was the norm for flight hours. Couple that up with a possible "3.0 for CO" manpower crunch post LCDR...

Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Gatordev]

The guys who were my YG in HSL were leaving with far less than was the norm for flight hours. Couple that up with a possible "3.0 for CO" manpower crunch post LCDR...

I don't really understand what those two sentences have to do with one another...or what flight hours has to do with FITREPs/O-4 selection. Or what "3.0 for CO" means.

 

[Recovering LSO]

I don't really understand what those two sentences have to do with one another...or what flight hours has to do with FITREPs/O-4 selection. Or what "3.0 for CO" means.

Whew... I thought it was just me...

 

[BigBadBoJenkins]

The reduced opportunity for LCDR is going to have interesting effects in some communities.

The guys who were my YG in HSL were leaving with far less than was the norm for flight hours. Couple that up with a possible "3.0 for CO" manpower crunch post LCDR...

Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk 2

What does "3.0 for CO mean?"

 

[helolumpy]

The Navy knows exactly how many DH positions they need each year and promote accordingly.
What I've been seeing is reductions in the size of staffs (with the exception of C5F which doesn't hit critical mass until they take over the entire island of Bahrain) there is a reduced need for URL O-4's that are not in DH positions.
As an example, I'm getting a first shore duty LT to replace an O-4 in my Department.
It's simply a numbers game. If you make someone an O-4, then you need to provide him/her a career path for 20 years and then foot the bill for the retirement.
If you don't make as many O-4's then your cost savings are significantly reduced. They make that savings up by cutting some excess O-4 staff billets and maybe not having excess DH's. (Every squadron has an O-4 show up that doesn't have a job yet because someone is being extended to the next FitRep cycle to take care of them)

I can not imagine a 3.0 for CO. The FitRep process will continue to screen folks as we always have.
What this numbers game has resulted in is increased importance of your first tour performance.
You used to be able to get away from doing OK in your first tour, go to shore duty and continue to improve. Do well at your disassociated sea tour and to make command kick ass on your DH tour. You really didn't NEED to have EP's everywhere, just solid DH FitReps.
That's changed. Less folks making O-4 thins the heard for CO. So, if you want command, you need to break out earlier than previous generations.

 

[MasterBates]

Well, what my drunk posting (now hungover posting) was trying to say, was there may be unintended consequences with trimming the numbers that far to the point where there is no opt out of DH. Hasn't it happened before with T-Notch, that if you stayed, you promoted (granted, that was an accessions driven problem, not a mid career problem).

It's similar to a logistics problem I've seen on drilling sites. Companies try to save as much as possible, by not having trucks with water/LN2/Proppant be standing by, and "cut the fat" out of the budget by contracting the trucks to show up maybe 15 minutes before needed, then every 15 minutes (time to pump a load down hole on a frac job on average) until the required number of trucks has been there.

Great in theory, but if a truck gets broken down, lost, or in an accident, you are now short a truck. How this is relevant to trimming to the bare minimum needed people needed, which, in theory is not a bad thing budgetary-wise, (but can be bad if your assumptions/calculations are wrong) but the first time the actual attrition through retirement, resignations, or guys getting out for the airlines (least likely it seems lately) are noticeably higher than forecast, then it starts becoming a "3.0 for CO", not in actuality but in the tongue in cheek way that some T-notchers joked about. But yes, becomes more of a last man standing than it is at the moment.

The flight hours was a concern some guys had when I was HSL JO. I have two friends who are now HSL/M OICs that had under 700 hours in the B when they started the CAT 3/2 RAG Syllabus for their OIC tours. I know they are not the only ones walking back in, now being "in charge" (more so than a non-det squadron DH) and have barely more flight time than the average guy coming off his 2P cruise did at one point.

Separate concerns, but both make sense after 10 beers trying to knock myself out so I can switch over to night hours.

 

[Brett327]

I think they make something for that:

 

[scoolbubba]

Ambien is a hell of a drug.

 

[Recovering LSO]

Making O-4 does NOT automatically translate to a free pass to 20 years. The Navy can address many of the issues you highlight with respect to manning and staffing - while at the same time not getting stuck paying for these individuals for the rest of their lives. Keep them as long as you need them, be honest with them about their future career progression being limited, and then cut them a severance check when you no longer need their services. It's a "cold" idea, but it addresses the concerns you have highlighted.

I can not imagine a 3.0 for CO. The FitRep process will continue to screen folks as we always have. What this numbers game has resulted in is increased importance of your first tour performance.
You used to be able to get away from doing OK in your first tour, go to shore duty and continue to improve. Do well at your disassociated sea tour and to make command kick ass on your DH tour. You really didn't NEED to have EP's everywhere, just solid DH FitReps.
That's changed. Less folks making O-4 thins the heard for CO. So, if you want command, you need to break out earlier than previous generations.

^ This isn't really a bad news story though is it?