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Bye Bye Buckeye

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
....When it comes to CAS, I'll take a Marine Harrier over a Navy Hornet every day and twice on Sunday. What was it that the Red Baron said? "It's not the crate that matters, it's the man flying it."
*sigh* ... this still continues to rear it's head from time to time and I don't know about Hornets and other assorted gnats ... but:

... I also don't know where you guys continue to get this stuff re: USMC "superiority" in close-air. I know, I know, the USMC HAS to believe its own propaganda or they would be in deep shit at the end of the day ... but com'on ....

I have NEVER seen or been in a bombing/rocket/strafing "real-world" evolution nor competition where the USMC drivers did any better overall than their USN counterparts NOR where the USMC drivers "pressed the target" w/ any more zeal or competence than their Brother-in-Blue.

Professional is professional; good is good. The rest is PR ...
:)

*sniff* ... sorry for the threadjack, Buckeye blues .... :icon_cryi
 

Single Seat

Average member
pilot
None
We have an Olive Garden and a Best Buy now!

Holy shit!!! PROGRESS!!!!!

Clubbing baby seals is fun?:D

One of the best flights of done in recent memory was as a single red air against a section of Harriers doing a 2v1. I was limited to Mig-23 performance unless they hadn't killed me after 720 degree's of turn, then I was cleared full up. Oh what a day that was! (Let me also say I'll never compete with those guys when it comes to A/G)
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
No, the potshot was more aimed at defending my brothers in green (referred to as Baby Seals) - even if they are jet fags... ;) I guess I should have added a smilely.

Truth be told (and I'm sure upgrades have changed this statement somewhat), I'd still prefer the Harrier to show up (at least initially) because the software that worked with their LITENING (and HD or squeeze can answer whatever software it was they had) allowed them to "mensurate" (put in quotes because I know it's not REALLY mensurated...) coordinates. So even if they're Winchester, I could get them to refine coordinates for me to pass to other players. Hornets/Rhinos do have some impressive on-station time, as well as ordnance load outs.

[RANT]
Oh, and our biggest gripe about CAS is the whole JCAS pub. AKA - the way the AF does it. Too much CYA in there. We invented CAS for chrissakes and know how to do it, and do it well. Then to have the AF do their whole "who owns the bomb" bullshit...
[/RANT]
 

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
*sigh* ... this still continues to rear it's head from time to time and I don't know about Hornets and other assorted gnats ... but:

... I also don't know where you guys continue to get this stuff re: USMC "superiority" in close-air. I know, I know, the USMC HAS to believe its own propaganda or they would be in deep shit at the end of the day ... but com'on ....

I have NEVER seen or been in a bombing/rocket/strafing "real-world" evolution nor competition where the USMC drivers did any better overall than their USN counterparts NOR where the USMC drivers "pressed the target" w/ any more zeal or competence than their Brother-in-Blue.


It's a good thing that you're not even a little bit biased.;)

Professional is professional; good is good. The rest is PR ...


True, that.

At the end of the day it comes down to optimized systems, training, and professionalism that makes a good CAS (or any other type) player. Always has, and always will.

Practice makes perfect, and those that spend the majority of their time in the A/A master mode will always trail behind those that don't. That's not a slam on anybody else (Hornet or Navy), just the facts.

As to "clubbing baby seals".........sure. Just reread my words above and change A/A to A/G. When it comes to A/A a Harrier may have professionalism going for him, but optimnized systems and training are certainly lacking when compared to our split-tailed compadres in air to air.

Like I've said before to other Hornet guys.......you should be less proud of the 90% of the times that you've shot me, and more embarrassed about the 10% of the time you got shot.

It's like beating an S-3 in a bombing derby. It was a great aircraft for what it was designed to do, but beating it at what it wasn't optimized for is no great feat.
 

JustAGuy

Registered User
pilot
I do miss flying the old girl, and the gun pattern was still one of the most fun flights I have ever done.

Meridan and Key West pictures. If I recall correctly that is in fact me in 979.
 

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