Body Armor vs Rifle

[Fly Navy]

These are pictures of Level IIIA armor on a clay backstop fired on with various cartridges. I will post pictures of it fired against 5.56x45mm and 7.62x39mm. Non-scientific test, but still pretty convincing. The original thread is from AR15.com, here is the link: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=352810

Lessons learned for those not in the know? WEAR YOUR BALLISTIC PLATES. Vests are not bullet-proof. They don't even care about stopping a rifle bullet.

EDITED TO SAY: Crap, I can't post the pictures. Go to the link to see yourself.

 

[Ryoukai]

Note to self: NEVER GET SHOT IN THE CHEST.

 

[Clux4]

In the initial stages of the war, not everyone got the inserts and a friend of mine in the Army was telling me of how some guy was lucky when a round that hit him was stopped by a book he put in-place of the insert. I guess that was his lucky day.

 

[Fly Navy]

Note to self: NEVER GET SHOT IN THE CHEST.

Odd fact: 80% of people shot in the chest with a pistol cartridge, when they've received quick medical attention, survive.

 

[Fly Navy]

In the initial stages of the war, not everyone got the inserts and a friend of mine in the Army was telling me of how some guy was lucky when a round that hit him was stopped by a book he put in-place of the insert. I guess that was his lucky day.

Very lucky. Glad to hear it.

 

[PropStop]

Trauma plates are your friend. Wonder how the armor plates would do.

 

[Ryoukai]

How bout the dummy that took the Kalashnikov round? How's he gonna do with medical treatment?

 

[Fly Navy]

How bout the dummy that took the Kalashnikov round? How's he gonna do with medical treatment?

That's always hard to tell. Plenty of soldiers in WWII survived multiple hits with .30-06 and 8mm Mauser. It all depends on what the bullet hits and the trauma surrounding it.

 

[skidkid]

Right now a lot of guys in theater are glad they got hit in the chest. SAPI plates work. Now the big wounds are legs. arms and some head wounds but the helmet cuts down on that.

 

[RevnR6]

Well I personally have a Second Chance Level 2 soft concealable vest. In the vest I have 10 by 8 inches of hard trauma plates with sof trauma plates covering them. The hard and the soft plates are each rated at level 2A independently. Therefore I have 2 levels of level 2a in front of a level 2 vest. That should stop any rifle round out there if I am hit in the chest. I will post pictures later of my setup.


Edit: I have about 200 bucks that I have sitting in pay pal that I am going to use on ebay to pick up a couple used vests with. Once I find a couple of good deals(3 sets of armor for less than $200) I am going to do some tests. That will give me 6 panels of armor to shoot and I will be shooting with 9mm, .40, .45, .223, 7.62X39, and .357 sig. I think that if I shoot wisely I can shoot once piece of armor for 2 pistol calibers so if that works out I will also shoot with a 12 guage and .17hmr. I will of course fully document with pictures and such. I am also going to try and get ahold of a chorono to measure velocity of the projectiles. If anyone is in or near vegas and wants to be my assistant when I get this all set up, PM me and lets have some fun.

 

[Fly Navy]

Well I personally have a Second Chance Level 2 soft concealable vest. In the vest I have 10 by 8 inches of hard trauma plates with sof trauma plates covering them. The hard and the soft plates are each rated at level 2A independently. Therefore I have 2 levels of level 2a in front of a level 2 vest. That should stop any rifle round out there if I am hit in the chest. I will post pictures later of my setup.

I don't think armor just adds up like that, does it? Cool that you got it though, I'd love to see your pictures.

 

[RevnR6]

I don't think armor just adds up like that, does it? Cool that you got it though, I'd love to see your pictures.

Well it does add up protection wise but its not like straight math where 3 level 2s equal a level 6 or something. But yes if a bullet has to go through a soft trauma pack, a hard trauma pack, AND a level 2 vest, you will get more protection than just straight level 2 vest. Also the addition of hard trauma packs are critical against rifle rounds, as even if the round is stopped, the hit will kill you unless you have some sort of hard armor.

 

[Lawman]

That's always hard to tell. Plenty of soldiers in WWII survived multiple hits with .30-06 and 8mm Mauser. It all depends on what the bullet hits and the trauma surrounding it.

Theres good reason to that, the temporary wound cavity though big with a big 7mm+ round may be mean but they dont tumble like the intermediate rifle cartiridge. They go straight on through for the most part and dont have the same kind of permenant wounding ability of a tumbling round, so a pressure bandage will do alot more to stop the bleeding and buy enough time to get to an aid station. An intermediate cartridge on the other hand tumbles and yaws creating a much more damaging permenent wound cavity (think a 5.56 has more size laterally then a .308 from the front). Also at the higher velocitys these rounds also have a tendency to break up on impact creating a peppering effect inside the body. It takes alot more treatment to stop the kind of bleeding that can be expected from a smaller cartridge. The damage caused by that 5.56 is actually worse medically then the AK, one straight hole is easier to treat.

Level IIIA armor actually stops shotguns better then low caliber high velocity pistols. The thump in the clay you see is the blunt trauma being transmitted to the target. If you used the old armor vests that predated Kevlar you actually get a much deeper thump, where Kevlar spreads it across the chest allowing for a lower chance of you surviving the bullet but dying from shock. And funny enough but actually one of the biggest threats out there to a vest is a low caliber (17-25cal) round with alot of velocity at close range. Thats one of the big deals with the .40 cal that was discovered during its development its the most likely round to fail against an IIIA armor so the likely hood of an officer hitting another and it being fatal (hey some of the departments out there..... aint to far off) went down from the 9mm, plus hitting power went up a bit.


RevnR6,
Unless its III ceremic or SAPI over a level II concealment vest or better its not rated to stop a highvelocity rifle round. They sell vests like this for about 600, and they way about 12 lbs, thats why nobody wears them till they need them.

Ryoukai,
Dont worry about the chest, the stomach is where I worry about taking a round. Thats where your kidneys, liver, gall bladder are and if you hit one of those the likely hood of dying from infection caused by all the toxins being released into your body goes way up. Remember the human body originally walked on all fours, standing upright was a bad idea because it exposes all our organs.

 

[RevnR6]

Ok here is my setup.

The black one is a Level 2 Force one vest. This vest provides a little better underarm and wrap around protection but is a little older. The White one is a Level 2 Point Blank model and is 1 month old.


I also include a pic of my XD with her newly installed XML. I am surprised by how small if actually is.

 

[RevnR6]

RevnR6,
Unless its III ceremic or SAPI over a level II concealment vest or better its not rated to stop a highvelocity rifle round. They sell vests like this for about 600, and they way about 12 lbs, thats why nobody wears them till they need them.

That is exactly why I want to do those tests. The maker of the Hard plates I have claims that if there is a soft plate(made of kevlar or other ballistic material) in front of it and a soft armor of level 2 or greater behind it, it will be level 3 protection. I shall see. If all of that fails to stop the 7.62X39 then I am going to ditch the hard plates all together and just go with soft trauma plates since they are easier to move in and more concealable.