Billionaire Fossett missing

[HuggyU2]

If his aircraft went down in Walker Lake (or another good sized body of water), the ELT won't work long, and you won't find the wreckage until you map the floor of the lake.

 

[KSUFLY]

Have you flown with him? If not...



You want to talk about a tragedy??? Let's talk about the multiple aircraft that were discovered on this search for one pilot that were never located when they were lost. Talk to me about feeling sorry for their families and this weeping might have some meaning. Too bad all this effort and coverage wasn't available for the average guy...

FLOWN with him...no...WORKED with him...yes. Remember that most of his flights are done solo. That's what sets the records many times. However, after working with him I've learned he is a very mythodical man and thinks out every possiblity and asks everyone around him to come up with scenarios that could be a show stopper for the flight.

It is sad that there aren't these effors for the "normal" pilot but the "normal" pilot typically doesn't have that many friends with their own helos and money that can come search for weeks at a time.

And anyone that begs to argue that he should've had a flight plan obviously hasn't flown very much civilian...VFR. The only time I'd ever file a VFR flight plan was when I had to for SOP with Kansas State. But even though I filed it, I rarely opened it. I'd typically just go for the VFR flight following. Outside of FAR 141...I never filed VFR and most other pilots I flew with never did either.

 

[Old NFO]

Disagree .... I've flown with and flight checked hundreds of pilots for over 35 years ..... lazy guys are always lazy and complacent guys are always complacent .... in the air or on the ground, young, old, or in between. Experienced or beginners. Somewhere along the line, the "good" complacent guys begin to learn how much they can "get away with" ..... and the slide begins. Those less capable, complacent beginners just don't get very far in the program.

Take a look at their personal lives, their houses, cars, personal habits, how they dress, the condition of their uniforms, how they flight plan, how they preflight, etc., etc. for confirmation. You can tell a LOT about a guy just by watching him or in the case of the Navy, by cruising with him. To say that "experience" breeds laziness or complacency is just wrong.

It's just harder to "catch 'em" when they're experienced --- as they KNOW how to do it --- they just "don't care" enough to "do it right" when someone is not "watching" ... this again, speaking from a Check Airman point of view. I can brief with a guy for 5 minutes and tell you how the flight is going to go and whether or not he's prepared .... and I'm probably right 95% + of the time .... as someone will always surprise you .....

With over 20K of flight hours ... I've may have been criticized for some things, but no one ever accused me of being "complacent" or "lazy".

Again, the true test of the man -- Aviator in this case -- is what he does "when no one's looking" .... at least that's been my ..... dare I say it (???) .... EXPERIENCE.

Dead on the money A4... A friend who is a DOT flight check pilot told me Fossett flunked three checkrides due to lack of prep and basic air skills. He relied on his "team" to do all the grunt work, and relied on the electronics/autopilot to take care of the rest... What is the old saw? You never need a parachute, until you don't have one? Appears to have been the case here. I'd almost bet IF they find him, it will be in the lake.

IF, big if, NTSB gets involved, there will probably be lots of stuff coming out that we are not aware of...

 

[scoober78]

FLOWN with him...no...WORKED with him...yes. Remember that most of his flights are done solo. That's what sets the records many times. However, after working with him I've learned he is a very mythodical man and thinks out every possiblity and asks everyone around him to come up with scenarios that could be a show stopper for the flight.

It is sad that there aren't these effors for the "normal" pilot but the "normal" pilot typically doesn't have that many friends with their own helos and money that can come search for weeks at a time.

And anyone that begs to argue that he should've had a flight plan obviously hasn't flown very much civilian...VFR. The only time I'd ever file a VFR flight plan was when I had to for SOP with Kansas State. But even though I filed it, I rarely opened it. I'd typically just go for the VFR flight following. Outside of FAR 141...I never filed VFR and most other pilots I flew with never did either.

Fair enough...just wanted to distinguish if you were talking out your @## or not... No offense meant. BTW...I never suggested that he should have had a flight plan.

Oh...one last thing...methodical....

 

[whitesoxnation]

If you can ever get through to FSS....... I've heard some horror stories now that LMT has taken over

 

[kejo]

And anyone that begs to argue that he should've had a flight plan obviously hasn't flown very much civilian...VFR. The only time I'd ever file a VFR flight plan was when I had to for SOP with Kansas State. But even though I filed it, I rarely opened it. I'd typically just go for the VFR flight following. Outside of FAR 141...I never filed VFR and most other pilots I flew with never did either.

Spot on there. I brought up the question initially because I don't have a lot of civilian time (30 hrs), or really any exposure to how most civilian guys operate when flying VFR out in the big blue yonder. It seems fairly clear to me now (or at least, in my opinion from what I've gathered) that filing a flight plan for a local VFR hop really doesn't do you that much good, especially out in the middle of nowhere...so long as somebody else knows what you're doing.

 

[wink]

Wink,
The search for Fossett started very soon after he didn't return to the Flying-M Ranch because the folks there knew when he didn't return. Would ATC flight following work? Sure, but Fossett probably didn't want to talk to anyone, he was out goofing off sightseeing and didn't want to be bothered. Was radar coverage solid where he was flying or was he in and out of radar? Besides, what's the fun in flying VFR squawking 1200 if you treat it like you're flying IFR? This was a supposed to be a fun flight.

I wasn't talking about the Fossett case in particular. It seems like he had about as much back up as a flight plan would have gotten him. Let me be clear, I am not a flight plan Nazi either. I have flown hundreds of miles without a VFR flight plan and felt perfectly safe. My previous comments were meant to prompt some hangar flying. On the other hand, I am one to use all the tools available in the tool box. And just like the tools you use depend on the job, the mix of services, if any, I use depend on the flight, terrain, weather (even if VFR), etc. Sometimes I don't tell anyone I'm going flying. In those cases I at least maintain a listening watch on center or approach. Other times I may leave detailed trip info with my family, file, bring the cell phone, use flight following, etc. It all depends.

As for the PLB, if you auger in it doesn't really matter much if they find you sooner or later -- dead is dead. The aircraft's ELT may or may not work, the 121.5 beacons don't have a great rep, especially if it's destroyed on impact or the aircraft goes belly up. If you regain consciousness though, it doesn't take much to turn on a 406 MHz PLB and the signal carries lots of data, including lat-long if you have one of the units with an embedded GPS -- takes the search out of search and rescue.

There is a place between dead and uninjured. You can be disabled and unable to activate a PLB and be quite alive. You can also lose control of a PLB in a crash and not be able to find it or get to it where it lays 30 yards away in the snow. No doubt 406 MHz is the way to go. I don't have one. But I am not going with a PLB. I'll just get an ELT that can go mobile.

 

[RAS]

First a PLB can't replace an ELT because it's not aircraft equipment. However, a PLB could complement an ELT. There's an old saying that goes something to effect that "two is one, one is none", usually as a rationale for carrying more than one knife. Expect things to not work or get lost in a survival setting and have a back-up.

As for the "place between dead and uninjured", I'll assume that refers to my "auger in" comment -- very true. However like I said, it doesn't take much to activate a PLB and the new ones are small enough they can be in your flight suit. It's a much better option than a Breitling watch.

 

[subTidal]

DNA links bones near plane crash to Fossett: http:/www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,446464,00.html

 

[P3 F0]

NTSB's ruling is out: they say downdrafts killed him.
summary:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...07X17184&key=1

full narrative:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?...07FA277&akey=1

 

[jfulginiti]

Links no workie.... maybe these will...

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