Being a Naval Aviator with a spouse in Law/Medicine/professional career

[mtaylor]

Hey everyone, I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the Main Forum, but here goes.

I was wondering if anyone could share their experiences with a spouse/significant other/girlfriend etc. who had their own professional career going on while their partner/spouse entered the military.

In my current situation, I am pursuing a commission as a Pilot and my girlfriend has one year left of Law school. The amount of moving around the country that military Pilots (or anyone else really) is not conducive to someone attempting to practice medicine or be a lawyer for example.
She would have to apply to take the Bar exam in every state that we moved to, which is unreasonable and I would never make her do that, as most states do not have reciprocity with each other.
The same thing goes for anyone who's career is tied to a state's certification. Like teachers, etc.

How did you guys make it work? Do you have any advice? Any information would be most helpful! Thank you!

 

[MasterBates]

My wife has taken her NY, VA and WY teachers certification.. It's not that onerous. Can't speak to the bar, but Incenter12 may be someone you want to contact. His wife is a lawyer.

 

[jtmedli]

I'm no lawyer, but you may also want to consider that you could be in the same state (FL) for a large majority of your career or 2 states (FL + CA/VA for fleet/disassociated tours). So she may only have to take the bar twice. It sucks, but it's better than taking it every 3 years and it is a possibility. Good luck.

 

[Swanee]

Federal jobs only require a lawyer to pass the bar in one state. Thusly both my father in law and sister in law worked for the fed. Father in law as a legal policy writer for the VA and my sister in law was a security clearance litigator whom represented the Gov when people contested the denial or revocation of their security clearance. Her job involved a bit of travel, but was great because they moved a few times and there are offices for that kind of stuff in every part of the USA.

Edit: Sister in law worked for DOHA (Defense Office of Hearings and Appeals).

 

[scoolbubba]

Hey everyone, I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the Main Forum, but here goes.

I was wondering if anyone could share their experiences with a spouse/significant other/girlfriend etc. who had their own professional career going on while their partner/spouse entered the military.

In my current situation, I am pursuing a commission as a Pilot and my girlfriend has one year left of Law school. The amount of moving around the country that military Pilots (or anyone else really) is not conducive to someone attempting to practice medicine or be a lawyer for example.
She would have to apply to take the Bar exam in every state that we moved to, which is unreasonable and I would never make her do that, as most states do not have reciprocity with each other.
The same thing goes for anyone who's career is tied to a state's certification. Like teachers, etc.

How did you guys make it work? Do you have any advice? Any information would be most helpful! Thank you!

Not married to a barrister, but my wife does work as a contracts manager for a aerospace/defense company. She's been able to keep a job the whole time we've been married, mostly through networking. Every job she's had has been through word of mouth and her reputation.

Not quite the answer you're looking for, but it can be done; it just takes a person willing to work through the challenges of being married to one of us retards while balancing that with their own professional development.

 

[mtaylor]

Thanks for all the quick and great responses! I really appreciate it.

I gathered that it wouldn't be easy, but that is great news Swanee about working for the Federal government. Also it works out great because she was already interested in that as a way to pay back student loans.

I guess it also helps that I am hoping for a P-8 slot, which would also more or less solidify the potential locations to be stationed and the duration of stay.

 

[jcj]

Federal jobs only require a lawyer to pass the bar in one state. Thusly both my father in law and sister in law worked for the fed. Father in law as a legal policy writer for the VA and my sister in law was a security clearance litigator whom represented the Gov when people contested the denial or revocation of their security clearance. Her job involved a bit of travel, but was great because they moved a few times and there are offices for that kind of stuff in every part of the USA.

Edit: Sister in law worked for DOHA (Defense Office of Hearings and Appeals).

Medicine is the same way - If you work in the federal system, you need a license in a state (not necessarily the state you are located in) - in the fed system this usually means positions in the VA, Indian Health, DOD civilian positions, BOP & the like.

(my direct knowledge re: the comment below relates to medicine, but I think probably applies to law as well)

A physician who is married to someone who is in a career that requires frequent moves (military aviation) - and assuming they will live together - will have some career options not reasonably available to them that are available to other physicians with more geographically stable lives. For example, it's difficult to join a group practice, prove yourself for a few years and then be offered partnership - or enter academic practice and later get promoted and awarded tenure - if you have to move on the usual schedule of a military officer. But there are lots of "temporary" type jobs for physicians in urgent care centers, ED's, clinics and the like. It's just difficult to make what we in the profession would consider a normal career progression with such frequent moves.

I think the usual mainstream legal career plan is similar - the traditional path is that new attorneys associate with a firm, build a good reputation and after a few years are (hopefully) offered partnership. There are other employment models and there are educational & other experiences as well (clerkships) - unfortunately the employment outlook is not as bright for lawyers as it is for physicians.

With that said, some young physicians and lawyers aren't looking for traditional career paths and value this career flexibility (particularly if they are paired with a spouse with a stable career that is primary for the family unit). And looking at it the other way one of the finest med mal attorneys in town (Little Rock) is the wife of a C-130 pilot - she is with arguably the most prestigious firm in town and has practiced here for years. I don't know if her husband is AD or full time ANG - I'm sure he has deployed some as well. That has not kept her from becoming one of the seriously respected med mal attorneys around here.

But I think it's important for both of you to know that while she can have a very nice professional career working in staff/agency jobs places near where you are stationed, there will be some opportunities that she will be effectively giving up by choosing to move & live with you, and allow your career to be the primary career for your family. So keep that in mind and treat her accordingly.

 

[zab1001]

My wife is a lawyer. She took the multi-state bar, or whatever it's called, and is willing to take the bar in states where that doesn't cover it. That said, I'm stationed overseas right now (required for my career path), and she's in the US for this tour, since getting accredited here would take forever and be a serious pay cut. It's one tour, it isn't the end of the world, and we got our choice of orders next, where she'll be able to practice.

I think your question isn't about the technicalities of transferring a license to practice (I'm sure your girl is researching that), I think you're asking how people in similar situations make it happen. You do what you have to do if you want it to work. If she's going to follow you, then she needs to understand that she won't follow the standard lawyer career path.

 

[mtaylor]

Medicine is the same way - If you work in the federal system, you need a license in a state (not necessarily the state you are located in) - in the fed system this usually means positions in the VA, Indian Health, DOD civilian positions, BOP & the like.

(my direct knowledge re: the comment below relates to medicine, but I think probably applies to law as well)

A physician who is married to someone who is in a career that requires frequent moves (military aviation) - and assuming they will live together - will have some career options not reasonably available to them that are available to other physicians with more geographically stable lives. For example, it's difficult to join a group practice, prove yourself for a few years and then be offered partnership - or enter academic practice and later get promoted and awarded tenure - if you have to move on the usual schedule of a military officer. But there are lots of "temporary" type jobs for physicians in urgent care centers, ED's, clinics and the like. It's just difficult to make what we in the profession would consider a normal career progression with such frequent moves.

I think the usual mainstream legal career plan is similar - the traditional path is that new attorneys associate with a firm, build a good reputation and after a few years are (hopefully) offered partnership. There are other employment models and there are educational & other experiences as well (clerkships) - unfortunately the employment outlook is not as bright for lawyers as it is for physicians.

With that said, some young physicians and lawyers aren't looking for traditional career paths and value this career flexibility (particularly if they are paired with a spouse with a stable career that is primary for the family unit). And looking at it the other way one of the finest med mal attorneys in town (Little Rock) is the wife of a C-130 pilot - she is with arguably the most prestigious firm in town and has practiced here for years. I don't know if her husband is AD or full time ANG - I'm sure he has deployed some as well. That has not kept her from becoming one of the seriously respected med mal attorneys around here.

But I think it's important for both of you to know that while she can have a very nice professional career working in staff/agency jobs places near where you are stationed, there will be some opportunities that she will be effectively giving up by choosing to move & live with you, and allow your career to be the primary career for your family. So keep that in mind and treat her accordingly.

Thanks jcj. The comparison between the two professions fits well.
And you are exactly right, she would not be taking the traditional career path, and she would have to give up certain opportunities by making numerous moves and sticking with lower paying/lower prestige positions during that time.
Its definitely not an ideal situation to put ourselves into...

I found out about this website after doing a little googling. Its called http://www.msjdn.org , Military Spouse JD Network. It was created by two ladies and it has since grown and is petitioning the Federal government and states to improve licensing accommodations. It looks like they have done a lot of great work already!

 

[mtaylor]

My wife is a lawyer. She took the multi-state bar, or whatever it's called, and is willing to take the bar in states where that doesn't cover it. That said, I'm stationed overseas right now (required for my career path), and she's in the US for this tour, since getting accredited here would take forever and be a serious pay cut. It's one tour, it isn't the end of the world, and we got our choice of orders next, where she'll be able to practice.

I think your question isn't about the technicalities of transferring a license to practice (I'm sure your girl is researching that), I think you're asking how people in similar situations make it happen. You do what you have to do if you want it to work. If she's going to follow you, then she needs to understand that she won't follow the standard lawyer career path.

That's great that your wife is willing to re-take the Bar exam in those other states; I've heard that can get very expensive (thousands of dollars) and time consuming.
Some states do offer reciprocity with Texas' Bar exam, but unfortunately Florida, Washington, and Hawaii have restrictions. I mention those states because I am a P-8 hopeful.

And you're absolutely right, my question is more about seeing how other people have coped and dealt with a similar situation. I know it is possible, but it will definitely put more stress on the relationship. However, we wouldn't be the first to do it. Thanks for your help, all of this info is great!

 

[SynixMan]

If you really love her, talk her out of being a lawyer...

 

[PropAddict]

My wife has taken the teacher's licensing exam and gone through the "provisional" process required of new teachers in 3 different states. It's not terrible, especially within the first few years out of school, but it does get old to be treated like a brand new teacher over and over when she has almost 9 years experience. And after a while, at least in my community, your options of where to be stationed get pretty necked-down and your personal preferences can help funnel those options into fewer possibilities that will likely be better for your family as a whole, if not always your military career in particular.

Buddy of mine is married to a lawyer. His first sea tour, they did the geo batch deal so she could do a clerkship and get barred in her home state where she went to school. Shore tour, she moved to CA with him and got re-barred there and works for a firm that essentially does public defender stuff. It's not the seven-figure corporate law job that they make prime time dramas about, but she likes the work and she's building a resume.

Another JO I know, his wife was in residency in a different state across the country when showed up to the squadron. He didn't see her much that tour. He chose his next two tours based on following her around to places she got a fellowship and then a job offer. He seems to be doing fine in his career progression and she's pulling in 6 figures already.

Oh, one more. My first DH had a wife who was a pediatric anesthesiologist (IIRC). Regardless of specifics, she is some exceedingly rare (and highly sought-after) flavor of doctor. Before they would PCS to each new duty station, she would cold call the hospital nearest the new base and fax a resume. She never had a problem getting hired. He screened for command last cycle.

As others have alluded: it's totally possible for a military spouse to have a professional career. . .it's just not going to be the cookie-cutter career path for most fields and it will likely require a bit of sucking it up at times to make your two careers work together.

 

[PenguinGal]

As others have alluded: it's totally possible for a military spouse to have a professional career. . .it's just not going to be the cookie-cutter career path for most fields and it will likely require a bit of sucking it up at times to make your two careers work together.

This.

 

[CAMike]

jcj in Reply#7 makes good points.

The wife's medical practice in Clovis CA is a multiple owner partnership with some Docs that were hired either on salary or hourly, i.e. not partners in the business. Most of those salary/hourly Docs are moms that don't want to work full time or are divorced and desire to earn income strategically. So to add to the discussion, there are several ways to "work" in the field but none are ideal for MIL related spouses.

Each state requires that you practice with that particular states license. Most state licenses to practice medicine are not transferable to another state, but a few are. So it's extremely difficult to plan for MIL transfers, unless you work for the US Gov- and that pay is usually not so great. National Board Certifications are valid everywhere but don't supercede the state requirements. Clear as mud?

Stick to teaching and (gulp) lawyering while your spouse is in the MIL. Professional partnerships are long term business endeavors so you will be legally moored at that location for more than a couple of years if you enter into one. "DOR'ing from a business partnership will get you in lot's of legal hot water, and it will follow you where ever you go and it'll be very expensive.

I was a single man while in the Navy and I just watched all the marital entertainment from the 50 yard line. You're not married yet according to post#1, you may want to use the search function here on divorce, manatee, lost half my retirement etc.. It's not too late! (50% kidding).

 

[The Chief]

Mike, you hit that one out of the park. I would add that Lawyer are in the same boat as you described Doctors. A law firm expects you to be married to the firm. Cases go on for years, my brother has been working on a case for 7 years, still taking depositions. There are lots of jobs for the "hourlies" with law degrees w/o Bar membership.