Bad news for me...

[WFU2USN]

savingthisone,

No just because you can pass a commissioning physical does not mean you can be an NFO. I am able to pass the commissioning one, but was NPQ for NFO due to some eye-related issues. If I reapply it's Intel, Supply, etc. for me unless I get eye surgery.

IS2(SCW)

http://www.geocities.com/califchick1175/USN/navy.html

 

[Meridiani]

Originally posted by Jolly Roger
Meridiani,

Where did you get that interesting tidbit? I went to NOMI's website and found that the max preop diopters you can have are +/- 5.5 diopters for both SNAs and SNFOs.

JR -- That information comes from the NAMI link that Bryce (BYSun) provided above. It's the vision requirements for NFO applicants, and it has nothing whatever to do with the PRK accession study. Your vision is within the acceptable limits for NFO applicants without PRK surgery. I'm not all that familiar with the PRK pre-op vision requirements for accession into the study, other than that my pre-op acuity (-4 diopters) was within the plus or minus 5.5 diopters necessary for a 3 month (rather than 6 month) wait for a PRK waiver. If you have any questions about your eligibility for the PRK study, be sure to send an email to a NAMI flight surgeon.

Savingthisone, where did you hear that applicants via the PRK study must have 20/20 uncorrected vision post-surgery? I'm not familiar with that rule. I was under the impression that as long as the surgery results put you within the visual acuity requirements for SNA applicants (20/40), that you were good to go, and that SNFO applicants were good to go so long as their vision was not worse than plus or minus 8 diopters either before or after the surgery.

 

[Jolly Roger]

Meridiani,

Thanks for the info. I have found a the correct information

. I am in like Flynn according to this:

1. Accessions (Waiver is requested on the applicant SF-88; do not submit an AMS.)

a. SNA and SNFO Applicants (PRK only) (Use SNA/SNFO PRK Accession Checklist.)

Pre-operative refractive error must be no worse than SNFO applicant standards except that maximum allowable hyperopia is no greater than +6.00 D total diopters sphere. Post-operative refractive stability is required and documented as follows. A final manifest refraction must be performed no sooner than three months after surgery for pre-operative refractive error in the range plano to –5.50 total diopters sphere (mild to moderate myopia), and no sooner than six months after surgery for pre-operative refractive error in the range –5.75 to –8.00 or +0.25 to +6.00 total diopters sphere (high myopia or any hyperopia). This final manifest refraction shall be compared to a previous manifest refraction performed at least one month prior to the final. Neither sphere nor cylinder may change by more than 0.50 D in each eye. If the interval change exceeds the standard, further manifest refractions must be performed at one month intervals until stability is demonstrated. Only the final two manifest refractions demonstrating stability with dates should be recorded on the applicant SF-88. The member must meet all other vision standards appropriate to his or her class of duty. A post-operative cycloplegic refraction with date must be reported for SNA accessions.

Submit with the applicant SF-88 copies of all records pertaining to PRK surgery including the pre-operative evaluation, operative notes (laser computer printouts), and all post-operative notes including documentation of the manifest refractions at appropriate intervals.

The member will be enrolled in the Navy PRK Aviation Accession Study upon arrival at NAMI for API (except for USNA midshipmen treated at NNMC Bethesda who are enrolled there).

Thanks,

Jolly Roger

 

[Jagraboz]

http://www.bupers.navy.mil/alnav/alnav01/aln01047.txt

This page shows that the SNFO max preop diopter measurement has changed from -5.50 to -8.00. Hope this helps to clear things up.

 

[savingthisone]

Stacy: Flight friend, advised, that, the rules, as follows, means that you gotta be corrected to at least 20/20 each eye. It seems to say that if you are in the official study group, have PRK, they will waive the NPQ provided 20/20 is achieved. He said: If you can meet requirement without PRK, why in the world take a chance on someone reading the rules in your disfavor. There seemed to be no advantage to PRK for NFO:

3. STUDENT NAVAL FLIGHT OFFICER (SNFO):

F. VISUAL ACUITY (1) CORRECTABLE AT LEAST TO 20/20-0 EACH EYE (HOWEVER, IF AFVT OR GOODLITE LETTERS ARE USED, A SCORE OF 7/10 ON THE 20/20 LINE CONSTITUTES MEETING VISUAL ACUITY REQUIREMENTS).

G. REFRACTIVE ERROR LIMITS: LESS THAN OR EQUAL TO PLUS OR MINUS 8.00 SPHERE IN ANY MERIDIAN

H. PHOTOREFRACTIVE KERATECTOMY: NO CHANGE-DISQUALIFYING; HOWEVER, WAIVERABLE IF NFO VISION STANDARDS ARE MET AND SNFO IS ENROLLED IN ACCESSIONS STUDY.

 

[savingthisone]

Stacy:

Meant to say "Flight Surgeon friend:

And yes, we know that the rule seems to exceed SNA requirements. Cannot help that, but the way i read it, if you go PRK for SNFO you gotta come out 20/20 or better, that is if to get PRK then you are NPQ for SNFO but you can get a waiver " ... if SNfo vision standards are met ... ". We believe that means 20/20 or better, because your "correction" was PRK.

Could be wrong, I was once.

 

[fraz76]

To All Hands
There is NO LIMIT for UNCORRECTED VISION (Vision must be corrected to 20/20) and there is also NO REQUIREMENT FOR DEPTH PERCEPTION for SNFO. I have the regs from NAVMED P-117 Manual of Medical Department Chapter 15. Update Change 118 8/20/2002. Please also read for yourself by downloading ManMade Change 118 for Chapter 15
http://navymedicine.med.navy.mil/instructions/default.asp?type=P

I hope I have cleared things up, I wish all the best of luck. Please pass infomation if can support it by written docs. If not you are passing misinformation. This happens to offen in the Navy.
Respectfully,
Fraz
PS It is a big file and SNA / SNFO is under Artice 15-65.

 

[savingthisone]

Uh. Shouting does not make one correct. But, you are almost correct. You need to read further and find out what the minimum eyesight requirement is for commissioning as an unrestricted line officer. NFO is a unrestricted line officer, i think you will agree. As i said, that is the minimum NFO eyesight requirment.

One is disqualified for NFO if they have had PRK. You might be able to get a waiver for PRK for NFO if your PRK corrected to 20/20. Am told they are not giving waivers if you are not corrected to 20/20 and other PRK problems.

My intention was not to show how much i know, nor entertain arguments, just to pass on what i believe is the case so folks that should not get PRK for NFO becaause they do not need it. Could be a mistake. Big mistake.

It is not what people know that is the problem, it is what people think they know. Will Rogers.

 

[fraz76]

savingthisone
Didnt mean to shout. I just couldnt find the underline key. I hope people just look for the regs. I did mention to read the regs. Because everybody case is different.

I didnt want to touch on the subject on PRK cause I understand how the Navy is very picky when it comes to waivers.

Please forgive me if I was shouting and "FLY NAVY"
Respectfully,
Fraz

 

[Jold]

Absolutely. That is also my big worry. That folks assume SNFO requirement allows PRK. PRK is NPQ and one will need a waiver and have been told they are tough to get. Soooo if one does not need PRK, why even do it. At least until you get into the door. Would be heartbreaking if they did, unaware.

Article 15-42 outlines vision requirments for all Officer and Enlisted. Good colour vision, no night blindness and etc are requirements for unrestricted line officers. +-8.00 diopters of sphere or +-4.00 diopters of cylinder w/corection to 20/20 for officers. SNFO requirements are contained in 15-65 are are on top of the general requirements of 15-42 for officers. For SNFO there are really none in excess of that general requirement.

We all appreciate your experience and help.

GO NAVY BEAT ARMY

BTW: Where is game this year?

 

[kevin]

once again, according to the prk accession study you need to be 20/40 post prk for both sna and snfo (not 20/20). if this has changed, id like to know.

 

[Jold]

Kevin:

Will tell you what i know and what i do not know. And i will tell you my source:

i do not know that SNA and SNFO visual requirements are 20/40. As someone correctly said in a prior post: Where is it written? Do not depend on scuttlebutt or he said, she said they say. Know what the answer is if it affects you.

i do know that SNFO requirements are "Corrected to 20/20". i know that PRK is disqualifying for SNFO and one would have to get a waiver.

i do know that a friend of the family, a flight surgeon said to me " ... with PRK the Navy has or will have all the SNA/s it needs. And, because of that fullfilled requirement for SNA, SNFO will or shortly will be filled. Trickle down PRK. With relaxed visual requirements for SNFO, there is no need for SNFO's to get PRK. And few PRK waivers, if any, will be given. i (he, the flight surgeon) interpret that if one does get PRK corection, that is a "correction" and that correction must be to 20/20 IAW MEDMAN.

i wish i could say more. i wish i had the answers. My advice is to get answers if it affects you. Do not rely on hearsay. Some of which i have given herein.

 

[kevin]

wakani, thanks for the info. however from what ive read off the nami site, things are a little different. http://navymedicine.med.navy.mil/PRK/Aviation_study_clarification_msg.txt
it says minimum for sna is 20/30 post prk. the 20/20 refers to pre op correctability. doesnt mention what it is for snfo, but how could pilot be 20/30 and nfo be 20/20? the 20/30 is a recent thing though, because last i saw it was 20/40. as for the study being filled, as somebody from nami posted a while ago, there are 500 new spots opening up for the prk accession study, and possibly more following. unless this guy was an imposter or didnt know what he was talking about, the prk thing should be fine for some time (at least i hope).

 

[Jold]

Good luck, Kevin. As i said, i do not know. i think i know but that is not good enough. Would agree that logic would say SNA could not be less than SNFO, but, i would not rely on that if i were affected by logical alone.

Flight Surgeon from Bethesda Naval Hospital.

 

[Jolly Roger]

Hello all! This has been addressed before in a previous post as to whether or not the study was full and the continual granting of waivers.

Check this thread: http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3406&whichpage=2&SearchTerms=PRK%2Cascension%2Cstudy

Check out Aeronerd's post on page two, which is a e-mail from the head of the opthalmalogy departent to his recruiter over the number of waivers left. It is quite incouraging. Well here it is (the names of the innocent have been changed, I have always wanted to say that

) :


My recruiter just got an email back from NAMI about the PRK study.... Here it is:

"It is true that the Navy PRK Aviation Accession Study is nearing its enrollment capacity. Navy waiver policy allowed us to recommend waiver for history of PRK in SNAs and SNFOs if enrolled in the Accession Study.

Any SNA that requires PRK was disqualified prior to the surgery due to defective distant vision or refractive error. The Study offered an opportunity to control the risk of a possible flight training performance or attrition hazard after PRK for a defined cohort of SNAs and SNFOs during the enrollment period. Analysis of Study results to scientifically guide future policy will require up to two years.

Development of interim policy recommendations is underway now. I cannot tell you what that policy will be or when it will be promulgated, but any changes will be distributed at the earliest opportunity by Navy message and on several official Navy websites.

I have never recommended that any individual undergo a surgical procedure solely to qualify for special duty. Fortunately, PRK has proven to be a safe and effective treatment of refractive error offering many general benefits for enhanced quality of life with reduced dependence on spectacles or contact lenses for clear vision. I am not aware of any upcoming change in Navy policy with respect to waiver for commissioning or non-air warfare specialty programs.

Your OC applicant should apply for any and all programs in which he is interested and which are available. We will endorse his SNA applicant physical examination according to the standards and policy that have been approved by higher authority."

R/

CAPT WXXXXX AXXXXXX MC, USN (FS)
Clinical Director
Head, Eye Department
Naval Aerospace Medical Institute[/size=1][/size=2]


and finally on page three of the same thread check out the thread by odav8r.

Here is the text of that post:


I am the aviation studies manager for the Navy Refractive Surgery Center in San Diego.
Just found this site through a member who called to ask me questions about the accession study.
Although the 500 "slots" in the Accessioning study are full, we just got approval to expand the study to an additional 150 slots. NAMI will continue to enroll applicants with Hx of PRK until they are used up. In the mean time we are working on a follow on study on the Quality of Vision in SNA/SNFO's that will allow enrollment of up to 500 more applicants with Hx of PRK.
Thought you might like to know.
CDR Andy Engle

There is hope for us, oh yes, there is hope! Keep the faith! When in doubt go to the horses mouth.

Jolly Roger

Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win.

"[I would] Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."
-Sophocles