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Back Pain in Rotory Wing Community

Stearmann4

I'm here for the Jeeehawd!
None
The unfortunate fact of the matter is it seems very few, if any, seats in the military have any sort of comfort in mind

FLY_USMC's statement pretty much hits it center mass. With few exceptions, ergonomics (other the panel) is largely overlooked. Sikorsky has the best of the several models of helicopters I've flown, but even the 60' cockpit designers never planned on full tactical vest with front and back ballistic plates.

My 85-million-dollar "new" Chinook is built around the exact same seats it had 20 years ago, along with the same Huey seat belts. No matter how you manipulate the 4 different adjustments on the seat, you're still bent at a 90 degree angle and hunched forward. I look like a gypsy when I get in the cockpit; towel rolled up for lower lumbar support, an inflatable seat cushion to allow me to tollerate any flight over 3 hours. Even worse, our gunners are using folding metal chairs in back instead of the airframe integral seats because the engineers didn't have the fore thought to see if they could actually reach the guns from their seats, and standing hunched over isn't realistic for multi-hour missions. I'm surrounded by amazing technology, but amazed how any sort of cockpit comfort was overlooked. The civilian helicopters I've flown were very comfortable without any sort of flight gear, albeit I never spent more than a couple hours in the seat. Because heaven for bid, if a company bought an S-76 and the pilots said the seats sucked, it would be returned to the manufacturer for a refund...DOD hasn't figured out that concept.

In the MH-47's case, it was specfically designed for LONG range penetration which now has developed into nightly missions of at least 10 hours in the seat. 15 hours isn't unheard of. Depending on the age of the pilot, it's not uncommon to have to be helped out of the seat at the end of the night. Most of us also have standing monthly chiropractic appointments.

As far as added stress of wearing NVG's. After about 1,400 hrs of NVG flying, I haven't experienced any aches or pains I can attribute to them. I think they key is to properly counterweight them on the back of the helmet. I have over recent years started doing light neck raises as part of my exercise, whether it works or not I don't know, but it doesn't hurt.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
As far as added stress of wearing NVG's. After about 1,400 hrs of NVG flying, I haven't experienced any aches or pains I can attribute to them. I think they key is to properly counterweight them on the back of the helmet. I have over recent years started doing light neck raises as part of my exercise, whether it works or not I don't know, but it doesn't hurt.

My issue was upper back, not lower back, mostly for this exact reason. I heard that a $5 dollar roll of nickels was the perfect counter-weight, but never tried it. When I go back to flying w/ them, I think I"m going to give it a shot.
 

Stearmann4

I'm here for the Jeeehawd!
None
After much experimentation on counter weighting; I finally started using fishing weights.. Held the NVGs in one hand and kept adding weights to the other until it felt equal. I like fishing weights better than coins because they have a slimmer profile depending on what kind of nylon or cordura bag you use. Our riggers produce them locally, but I've seen alot of variations around the Navy guys we work with.
 

skidkid

CAS Czar
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Everyone is on ANVIS-9s right? Doesnt the battery packs do enough to counter weight?
If your helmet is fit and snug they should really be that bad at all. the idea of eadding extra weight to my head making it more fatiguing to scan from side to side doesnt sound too apealing really.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
FLY_USMC's statement pretty much hits it center mass. With few exceptions, ergonomics (other the panel) is largely overlooked. Sikorsky has the best of the several models of helicopters I've flown, but even the 60' cockpit designers never planned on full tactical vest with front and back ballistic plates.

My 85-million-dollar "new" Chinook is built around the exact same seats it had 20 years ago, along with the same Huey seat belts.........

That is enlightening, and depressing. Is there an avenue that you guys can give feedback/complain about such things? WE had a thread on that for Naval Aviation a little while ago.......

After much experimentation on counter weighting; I finally started using fishing weights.. Held the NVGs in one hand and kept adding weights to the other until it felt equal. I like fishing weights better than coins because they have a slimmer profile depending on what kind of nylon or cordura bag you use. Our riggers produce them locally, but I've seen alot of variations around the Navy guys we work with.

I read a little while ago that the Israeli Air Force made two custom helmets for each fighter/attack pilot and navigator, one for day and one for night. Too bad we can't do the same........
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Everyone is on ANVIS-9s right? Doesnt the battery packs do enough to counter weight?
If your helmet is fit and snug they should really be that bad at all. the idea of eadding extra weight to my head making it more fatiguing to scan from side to side doesnt sound too apealing really.

The problem I have is that I have a non-standard head. It's a little too long for a Large and a little too narrow for a XL. I end up wearing an XL in helo helmets, which fits me fine until I put goggles on, then it slides forward a bit. I've rigged a way to stay in place by tightening the chin strip (and thereby the neck strap), but it's a stop-gap measure, and after about 3 hours, I'm about done w/ it.
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
The older "fat" battery packs counterweighted pretty well..

When they went to the slimmer "clip on" packs, it lost some of its moment arm.
 

hscs

Registered User
pilot
There are counterweights for the low profile ANVIS 9 battery packs. They work pretty well -- even with the HUD attached.

I would have to say that our gunners have similar issues, except that they have the ability to move around more. Ours are sitting on small coolers with seat cushions glued to them.
 

bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
I switched to the zeta liners and earcups from Oregon Aero at the same time I went from 6's to 9's, and somewhere between those two changes I stopped having any fatigue/soreness issues (this was also around the 400 hour mark of experience with them, and after 2 years out of the cockpit).
 

HercDriver

Idiots w/boats = job security
pilot
Super Moderator
I will recommend the seat pads (lumbar & seat) from Oregon Aero...got a set 6 mos ago and it has helped me tremendously on 8 to 10 hour flights.
That, and getting up, walking around, and pouring a cup of coffee.:D
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
I will recommend the seat pads (lumbar & seat) from Oregon Aero...got a set 6 mos ago and it has helped me tremendously on 8 to 10 hour flights.
That, and getting up, walking around, and pouring a cup of coffee.:D

none of that useful stuff in navy helos. not navair certified as it screws with the stroking of the seat.

just about everyone i know gets sore after spending an extended amount of time in the cockpit. after a 6+ hour flight, everyone came out of the bird with "helo back".

i think a lot of it has to do with the postion of the controls. if helos used fly by wire than we could all just use an xbox controller in our lap.
 
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