ASTB No Longer Part of Service Selection Equation

[FLYMARINES]

Have heard of several instances where XO's, CO's, OSO's, etc. do this kind of stuff to get people all worked up, and then they come out of nowhere and tell you that you got picked up for SNA (or insert whatever it is that you want). This even happened to me. Don't know you or your XO, so you probably shouldn't listen to me. Just thought I'd put that possiblity out there. Take all scuttlebutt with a grain of salt, and don't believe it until it actually happens.

 

[Chris Hill]

This sounds a lot like the AF formula. To be perfectly honest, it seems quite suspicious. It doesn't make sense that they would just remove the ASTB from the equation. In fact, the formula you posted doesn't make sense at all (from a common sense standpoint). I don't see why they'd change the old one.

Here's the one my CO and XO passed on to us (in case you haven't seen it yet):

http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10620

I've gotta agree with zippy:

Believe it when you see the Naval Message on it, or see it in action...

 

[jai5w4]

This sounds a lot like the AF formula. To be perfectly honest, it seems quite suspicious. It doesn't make sense that they would just remove the ASTB from the equation. In fact, the formula you posted doesn't make sense at all (from a common sense standpoint). I don't see why they'd change the old one.

Here's the one my CO and XO passed on to us (in case you haven't seen it yet):

http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10620

I've gotta agree with zippy:

Thanks, but I've been intimately familiar with the equation for about 4 years now. The new one has been decided on by NSTC. You'll all see soon enough.

J

 

[Chris Hill]

Thanks, but I've been intimately familiar with the equation for about 4 years now. The new one has been decided on by NSTC. You'll all see soon enough.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it doesn't seem like a good change to make. With CO's points being so high, it seems too subjective.

I'll be looking for official word on the new equation, although I'm still skeptical. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[jai5w4]

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it doesn't seem like a good change to make. With CO's points being so high, it seems too subjective.

I'll be looking for official word on the new equation, although I'm still skeptical. Thanks for the heads up!

I thought the same thing about the CO's points, until I had a conversation with an AFROTC Cadet. He explained the vast majority of their service selection formula is CO's points.

It's kind of a good thing, for good leaders anyway. People that would get what they wanted before were doing so based off their major, ASTB (for aviation) and their GPA....not whether or not they would make good officers and what their character makeup was. Now that has changed.

I can't stand it when I hear about CO's giving full points to all Mids just so they get what they want. What a disgrace.

It's especially good for the SWO community. As competitive as that warfare community has gotten over the past year or two, they will only be getting the best of the best in terms of leaders with this new equation. That's great for the folks those Ensigns will be DivOs for.

Got the meeting today with XO, I'll have more tonight.

Stay tuned.

jai5w4

 

[illinijoe05]

"It's especially good for the SWO community. As competitive as that warfare community has gotten over the past year or two, they will only be getting the best of the best in terms of leaders with this new equation. That's great for the folks those Ensigns will be DivOs for."


SWOs are still gonna get the same people, all this does is affect their ship selection ranking. So now you will have all the "good" leaders with easy majors like leisure studies going to brand new DDGs in pearl, while the guys who couldnt put as much time into the unit because they were working their tail off 60+ hours per week on an enigineering/science degree getting a spru-can out of pascagula.
The only insight i can give into this comes from the following
I met the CNO (yes ADM Clark) on monday night, had dinner with him, sorta i sat at the table behind hm (backs kitty corner..whatever) later in the night he talked about in the war on terror the soft sciences (e languages, psych..ect) will be increasingly more important. Maybe throwing out the major ranking is reflecting that the navy is looking for a larger range of diversity in its officers?

 

[Kolja]

Maybe throwing out the major ranking is reflecting that the navy is looking for a larger range of diversity in its officers?

Or just acknowleging what someone else already alluded to - there's loads of not-so-good people of engineering backgrounds in naval aviation, and more than a few who seem to have done alright for themselves with an arts&sciences degree....

 

[Chris Hill]

I know how the AF does it and I think it's too subjective. This new formula won't affect commissioning rates, so I assume it's supposed to be a "fairer" assessment of someone. It certainly won't commission BETTER officers - just redistribute the good ones and bad ones to different places.

The problem, as you (jai5w4) admitted, is inconsistency between units. Just because my CO likes me and wants to give me 100% of the points doesn't mean I deserve it. Another CO could be more stringent and give someone who is more qualified than me only 90%. Thus, the only "fair" way is to have objective standards (ASTB, GPA, etc.).

Oh, btw, the weighting for tech majors is not because tech majors are better. It's because tech majors GRADE HARDER. It's a way of trying to equalize the GPA's based on grading patterns.

 

[jai5w4]

Meeting with XO

Alright, had the meeting with my XO.

Apparently NSTC sees the new formula as a better way to evaluate Midshipmen.

He didn't mention how it affects OCS, and I didn't ask because he seemed to be in a hurry and I was late b/c of my eye exam (which went splendidly, thanks).

Apparently some of the more senior PNS's (20-25+ years, and theres only a handfull with that much time in as NROTC CO's) get together every year at the PNS conference and talk about where improvements can be made in the overall NROTC system. My CO brought up the story of a graduating female midshipman who got lower than her normal PNS points for her package b/c she had a party at her place one night and a mid got caught drinking under-age by the cops. So, based on her performance that semester, she got low CO points (from our now retired CO). Well apparently this screwed with her standing on the ship-selection roster and she was way further down on the list than both she and the unit staff thought she should be. EDIT

So, our CO took this story down to Pensacola for the anual PNS conference and other CO's had similar stories (overall "great" midshipmen with a screw up here or there were getting d-cked over b/c you could only do PNS points for the most recent semester), so they made an amendment and it passed. Hence the new formula where Mids are graded based off their overall battalion performance and ability to lead, and it counts for more of a percentage (40%).

The XO also said that while the ASTB scores don't go into the formula anymore, that people with 7's and 8's will be looked upon higher than those that just got the bare minimum of 4's and 5's to qualify. ***This statement really confused me as to why the ASTB had been taken out in the first place if they were still going to give "weight" to good scores, if nothing else in their minds.*** But I didn't question him, as I said earlier, he was in a hurry and I was late getting there.

I know it is long winded, but it's important that people hear about this stuff.

jai5w4

 

[SlickAg]

So when do this go into effect?

 

[jai5w4]

So when do this go into effect?

I will submit my aviation package this October and I will be subject to the new formula. That is all the sooner I know but there may be selection boards sooner than this fall's.

jai5w4

 

[Chris Hill]

Apparently some of the more senior PNS's (20-25+ years, and theres only a handfull with that much time in as NROTC CO's)...

Not to be picky, but this makes me want to believe your formula less. It usually takes someone 20+ years to make 0-6 (my CO is pushing 30 years right now as an O-6). How can someone be a "more senior PNS" at 20 years?

Again, I don't mean to be overly critical, but with bad info like this, what's to say the formula isn't wrong too...

 

[jai5w4]

Not to be picky, but this makes me want to believe your formula less. It usually takes someone 20+ years to make 0-6 (my CO is pushing 30 years right now as an O-6). How can someone be a "more senior PNS" at 20 years?

Again, I don't mean to be overly critical, but with bad info like this, what's to say the formula isn't wrong too...

What "bad info" are you refering to? Apparently there are some senior CO's out there that have more say at the anual PNS Conference than others. How is that bad info? I may have quoted the years wrong, but that doesn't change the fact....you know what.....keep on thinking this isn't real. Guess I'll just prepare myself for the new formula and you can call my bluff :idea_125: . Better? :dunce_125 :headache_ :banghead_ :tapedshut :icon_zbee

 

[mules83]

So, our CO took this story down to Pensacola for the anual PNS conference and other CO's had similar stories (overall "great" midshipmen with a screw up here or there were getting d-cked over b/c you could only do PNS points for the most recent semester), so they made an amendment and it passed. Hence the new formula where Mids are graded based off their overall battalion performance and ability to lead, and it counts for more of a percentage (40%).

I dont agree with this change because if you screw up you screw up. Plain and simple. If you make a stupid decision in the a/c, you will kill yourself and possibly others. We are in NROTC to become naval officers in the Navy/Marine Corps and this is our training. The girl you were talking about earlier, yes it sucks for her but she made the stupid choice to let that happen. Flying F/A-18's at Mach 1.5+ demands perfection, nothing less. If you cant get that in NROTC, you wont get it in the future.

Your CO is nice too. We have had these same type of issues in our unit and when it happens, you get kicked out, no questions asked

 

[SlickAg]

"Apparently some of the more senior PNS's (20-25+ years, and theres only a handfull with that much time in as NROTC CO's)"

That doesn't make any sense. All NROTC COs are O-6s, which means they have pretty much w/o a doubt more than 25 years of service. And there is a board this fall for December graduates, my package goes in this August. I wonder if this new formula will be the one they use for Dec grads, b/c our LT hasn't said anything about it. He's the type of guy who would let us know if anything new was coming.