Army's Alternative Professional Program - Graduate from West Point to NFL?

[Harrier Dude]

How is this so different than the World Class Athlete Program that all of the services have? Is a Soldier/Airman/Marine/Sailor's job not to serve their country wherever duty calls? (if you are not familiar, a quick google search will do the trick - basically, the WCAP gives Soldiers/Airmen/Marines/Sailors the opportunity to live and train at Olympic Training Facilities for a year or two before the Olympics if they are in the top tier of their sport)

It's not. I think that program is bullshit, too.

I went to grad school right after West Point on a scholarship - some classmates thought I was getting out of the suck, or getting preferential treatment because of grades. Well, fast forward a few years and when they were all getting out because their obligation was up, I was doing 15 months in Iraq. Same thing will happen here.

I think that the army has more to gain from sending an officer to grad school and retaining him to make use of his education than just letting some football player go to the NFL for the good press. BTW, did your grad school extend your terms of service, or did the time you spent there count toward your commitment?

The Army came up with the policy, most likely because the big green machine saw a large benefit for the Army.

This is the biggest point that I disagree with. I don't think that they saw a huge benefit for the army. I think that they saw a huge benefit for USMA athletics. The good press just makes for a convenient cover.

There are kids all over this country busting their butts to get into an academy so that they can become leaders for the armed services. If stellar athletic performance helped them get in, then fine. I'm all for the well-rounded person concept. But that athletic acheivement needs to be a means to and end, not an end in and of itself. Every appointment used for a future pro-athlete will be one less available for a future battlefeild leader.

I would hate to see the academies become like so many other schools who pander to wealthy alumni with semi-literate athletes in the search for championships that boost the alumni fund. How far away is that now?

 

[DanMa1156]

There are kids all over this country busting their butts to get into an academy so that they can become leaders for the armed services. If stellar athletic performance helped them get in, then fine. I'm all for the well-rounded person concept. But that athletic acheivement needs to be a means to and end, not an end in and of itself. Every appointment used for a future pro-athlete will be one less available for a future battlefeild leader.

I would hate to see the academies become like so many other schools who pander to wealthy alumni with semi-literate athletes in the search for championships that boost the alumni fund. How far away is that now?

I think I'm leaning more towards bullcrap on this issue too. Sure, athletics are great, but when there is a huge division between DIV-I athletes and the "intramural warriors" or club sports participants from the rest of the Brigade/Corps/whatever you have problems. We see that enough here as it is. It'd be pretty friggin demoralizing to hear someone say they want to service select "NFL."

On I-Day, (can't speak for how it is at West Point, R-Day I think) MIDN Candidates swear they they take their appointment freely, without reservation or ulterior motives... if going to a service Academy to get a good education, a free ride, and then going to a pro sports team isn't an ulterior motive (from becoming, in the Naval Service, an Unrestricted Line Officer; not sure what the Army calls it) then I don't know what is.

 

[trogdor]

Its good to keep in mind the practical applications of a rule such as this.

No rockstar HS football player is going to look at an academy an pick it over University of Miami, on the basis that they might be able to wiggle out of their service commitment should they be good enough for the draft. In addition no one is going to put up with the four years of bullshit that is the academy if they feel that they are just going to get out after graduation. And contrary to popular belief, a program like this does not create shitbags, poor leadership in companies creates shitbags.

I restate my previous assertion that this program (in addition to the WCAP, special talent program, or whatever) is good for the service, in that it provides persons with gifted talents a chance to hone their skills.

I bet you wouldn't be hearing the same arguments if a ROTC ENS got picked up for the PGA tour right out of flight school (which under the current program could certainly happen). Don't let this become a hating on the academy thing...

 

[Harrier Dude]

Its good to keep in mind the practical applications of a rule such as this.

No rockstar HS football player is going to look at an academy an pick it over University of Miami, on the basis that they might be able to wiggle out of their service commitment should they be good enough for the draft.

Agreed. But some "second tier" ones will. That would be a huge improvement for the academies in terms of athletic performance. I would also imagine that the "DOR" rate will reflect guys coming for the wrong reasons.

In addition no one is going to put up with the four years of bullshit that is the academy if they feel that they are just going to get out after graduation. And contrary to popular belief, a program like this does not create shitbags, poor leadership in companies creates shitbags.

You might check with VMI, The Citidel, et al. Lots of those folks go through all of that shit and do not want to take a commission. Also, as to creating shitbags, that's a different issue. There will always be some. In fact, the academy varsity athletes that I know are largely stellar folks. Top notch. I am not arguing against the current players. Just what this may bode for the future.

I restate my previous assertion that this program (in addition to the WCAP, special talent program, or whatever) is good for the service, in that it provides persons with gifted talents a chance to hone their skills.

And I restate my position that these programs do not add enough to the service to merit their cost. The juice ain't worth the squeeze.

I bet you wouldn't be hearing the same arguments if a ROTC ENS got picked up for the PGA tour right out of flight school (which under the current program could certainly happen). Don't let this become a hating on the academy thing...

You would hear the same thing from me in that case. I have nothing against the academies. I just don't like this idea because it's wasteful and disingenuous. They say they want better PR, but really they just want to win more games.

 

[Thisguy]

I bet you wouldn't be hearing the same arguments if a ROTC ENS got picked up for the PGA tour right out of flight school (which under the current program could certainly happen). Don't let this become a hating on the academy thing...

I'd be even more pissed if that was the case. What the fuck is he doing going to school on a ROTC scholarship for? If he's that good, he could get a golf scholarship to the same school he's attending.

I don't think you're going to see a major increase in draftable players from USMA. This guy just happened to develop into a safety prospect during his time at West Point...he didn't enroll with the intent of going pro.

 

[xj220]

I would hate to see the academies become like so many other schools who pander to wealthy alumni with semi-literate athletes in the search for championships that boost the alumni fund. How far away is that now?

It's here, just look at how NAAA OWNS the Naval Academy. Everything rotates around them and it's disgusting. Yeah, it's nice to beat the other service academies, win CinC trophies and be recognized nationally, but not at the expense of my institution. There's a reason why I went to the Academy; I wanted to go to the best to be trained by the best to be the best. I don't want my schools reputation to go down the drain so we can look good on Saturdays.

 

[DanMa1156]

It's here, just look at how NAAA OWNS the Naval Academy. Everything rotates around them and it's disgusting. Yeah, it's nice to beat the other service academies, win CinC trophies and be recognized nationally, but not at the expense of my institution. There's a reason why I went to the Academy; I wanted to go to the best to be trained by the best to be the best. I don't want my schools reputation to go down the drain so we can look good on Saturdays.

All too true I think.

 

[cfam]

Well, he definitely isn't getting a warm welcome to Detroit from at least one Michigan paper.

http://blog.mlive.com/hugeblog/2008/04/huge_lions_pick_not_a_feelgood.html

 

[bobbybrock]

You are right the "Big Army" does not do anyhting that will not benefit them. I'm really torn on this issue. I walked on at a Pac Ten school and know how hard it is to play at this level. To play at the next level is something so few can do. But my alma mater's lone purpose was not to produce military officers. That is the job of the service acadamies. It is great recruitng for the Army, but do we want to send the wrong message. I think the public deserves to get the 250 grand they put into these kids. That is the big difference with the World Class Athletic Program. Most of these individual didn't have the public pay for their world class education.

 

[Scoob]

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3361402&categoryId=2459789&n8pe6c=2

This ESPN story makes some very good points - though I did want to choke-slam a few of the reporters.

Bottom line is that it can be a very valid recruiting tool for the Army - or any service - but it needs to be done very carefully. First and foremost, athletic skill alone should not make one viable for the program. Certainly a character assessment should carry equal weight. Watch the video - this kid seems to meet both criteria.
Lastly, the Army needs to nip the idea in the bud that every graduate of West Point will immediately be in Iraq leading a platoon house to house. As long as this is looked at as getting out of the service obligation and not as being assigned to recruitment duty, it really doesn't have a good foundation to stand on.

The policy may have opened the door for the typical, douchebag student athlete to go to USMA, but it has also opened the door for a few more people with decent values to infiltrate the world of professional sports.

I thought it was curious that the other USMA alum who went to the Tigers, then opted out to go to Iraq has not garnered anywhere near the kind of attention that Tillman did.

 

[Scoob]

Most of these individual didn't have the public pay for their world class education.

So where does the money for an athletic scholarship to a state university come from then?

 

[chupacabra]

I'm not a marketing or advertising guy, but I really feel that having the service academy teams in the running for a NCAA championship would have a bigger effect on recruiting and the public image of the military than some of us think, and I don't think this program is being implemented primarily to appease alumni, though I'm sure it's a factor. This program won't instantly make West Point competitive on the highest levels, but it helps.

The Army already spends plenty of money on commercials, sponsoring sports events like the high school All-American game, and those awesome keychain lanyards, all of which doesn't seem all that effective (do people really join the military because they saw a commerical?). Having a professional athlete (someone kids look up to already) as a spokesperson on the payroll would be much more effective for recruiting. And it's not like every West Point graduate goes straight to leading infantry in Iraq, there are plenty of PAOs and the like. In the big picture the exposure brought by a few West Point grads going to the NFL is worth more than the service they would do otherwise.

I understand the point that the service academies exist solely to develop officers who will serve on active duty, so why bother with having the academy teams participate at the D-1 level at all? Aside from the tradition, I would say that there is enough value in the positive exposure they provide for the military to keep them around.

The biggest con I see is the high profile athletes getting preferential treatment at USMA, and not being held to the same standards as their peers. If it is already as bad as some of you who have experienced it say, the whole thing may do more harm than good.

 

[VIZKRIEG]

Obviously, I don't know the kid, so take this with a grain of salt, as my only knowledge of him is the ESPN vid posted, but my biggest problem with him is what he said in the video. Not one word came out of his mouth about recruiting for the Army as a whole, or helping garner support for the Armed Forces at war. The only thing he said was that they are a Division I team that needs to compete at a high level. That is just a plain ol' case of his priorities being all screwed up.

Maybe its just me, but I'm not seeing Army football as an all-encompassing "greater good."

On another note, I don't know their names, but that woman on the ESPN video that kept talking about how he shouldn't have to go to Iraq, and thats her happy ending should check her sleeve. I think she may have bloodstains from wearing her heart there all the time...

 

[bobbybrock]

So where does the money for an athletic scholarship to a state university come from then?

I don't think any of the guys I played college football with had a commitment to serve their country after they graduated.

 

[Oh-58Ddriver]

I don't think any of the guys I played college football with had a commitment to serve their country after they graduated.

Coming from WP and knowing a lot of the football guys there, I really cant see this program helping or hurting the academy all that much. Here are a few random thoughts about it in no particular order:

1) Have you seen Army play recently? How many cadets do you think will really qualify? I am guessing one in five years, and that is being generous.

2) Yes, some of the football players I knew were deuchebags. But so were some other people. Deuchebaggery at the service academies is all relative. The DBs did systems engineering or law (known to be the easiest majors) and scored 270 out of 300 on their PT test (which gets you the grade of D). Put the DBs in the real world, and they are on top of their peers - the bar is set so high that even those that barely make it are a step ahead of the rest. 270 is a really good score in big Army. Ya, maybe this kid only talked about football in the ESPN video, but at least he did so in a complete sentence.

3) The academy doesnt lose money on this. Read the fine print: they do two years active duty at a location near their team, PLUS 6 years in the reserve (at the current rate, that is two years in Iraq), PLUS the team has to pay WP for the education. So in reality, the Army gets 8 years out of the guy without paying for anything.

4) West Point always stressed "leaders of character." They had guest speakers come and talk to us from all walks of life, civilian and military. They are surprisingly open and encouraging to whatever your aspiration may be - they just want you to be the best at it. After all, "upon the fields of friendly strife are sewn the seeds that upon other fields, in other days, will bear the fruits of victory."

5) Look at other endeavors they encourage. I already mentioned the grad school thing which I did (side note: you know what a masters degree and 50 cents can get you in the Army? a can of coke). If the Army did not allow for flexibility in encouraging their Soldiers to achieve great things, we would no longer be a cross section of society - we would become even less real to the general public. They public NEEDS to hear the words Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force a little more.

6) I read that article and it kind of ticked me off. One, how can some reported sitting behind a desk be so critical of someone for making this decision? If that article was written by a war vet I might have given it a second thought. Two, the second guy (williams) did one year playing baseball then decided to go fight - how do we know this guy wont do the same?