I was reading through this poost and I noticed a post from 2 fly hornets. He had mentioned that a recruiter told him the army was putting more LT's throught flight school. This couldn't be further from the truth. The army has no plans to abolish the AWO program. Just remember that 90% of the cockpits in the army are filled by Warrants. All unit ( fleet) level IP are warrnats. There is just no place to send a new LT's pilot. In my present unit there are only two MTOE'd positions for 0-1 and 0'2's. Comopared to 16 Warrant pilot slots. So you need to trouble shooot this recruiter because he's tell you a lot of b.s. .
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Army Warrant Officer Aviator??
- Thread starter F18sPlease
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I talked to my brother about this, he is a WO in flight school now, and he says they are telling them that warrants are going away completely in the Army. All being replaced by regular officers like the other branches. Of course, this was right after he received his commission so there must not be a big hurry to get rid of them.
The army is looking into making AWO's into LDO ( limited duty officers ). The CSA is acually going to be briefed this week. But this has been talked about since I graduated flight school in 94.
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flipside138
Guest
FYI- Warrant Officers are not commissioned officers. They are appointed by a warrant and not commissioned. Hence the term... Warrant Officer.
"Warrant officers hold warrants from their service secretary and are specialists and experts in certain military technologies or capabilities. The lowest ranking warrant officers serve under a warrant, but they receive commissions from the president upon promotion to chief warrant officer 2. These commissioned warrant officers are direct representatives of the president of the United States. They derive their authority from the same source as commissioned officers but remain specialists, in contrast to commissioned officers, who are generalists. There are no warrant officers in the Air Force."
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flipside138
Guest
CG,
Nice copy and paste job. Yes it is true that warrant officers may be commissioned. However, the rank stems from a warrant. That was my point. I do not agree with the "generalist" label. Commissioned officers specialize in leadership. I wouldn't walk around base calling commissioned officers "generalists". Remember a 2nd Lieutenant outranks a CWO5. Why? hmmm... I am sure you can search for that answer as well.
Nice copy and paste job. Yes it is true that warrant officers may be commissioned. However, the rank stems from a warrant. That was my point. I do not agree with the "generalist" label. Commissioned officers specialize in leadership. I wouldn't walk around base calling commissioned officers "generalists". Remember a 2nd Lieutenant outranks a CWO5. Why? hmmm... I am sure you can search for that answer as well.
Sorry about that... forgot to include the quotes. I just put them in. I could have responded in my own words, but I didn't want to start an argument.
I was simply responding to your post that they are not commissioned, when in fact, they are commissioed at CWO2.
And, I don't need to do any more research... I know that I outrank CWO's and I work with them every day.
I was simply responding to your post that they are not commissioned, when in fact, they are commissioed at CWO2.
And, I don't need to do any more research... I know that I outrank CWO's and I work with them every day.
In Army Aviation, the topic we are talking about, Regular Officers are generalist. Warrants are Specialist. I have the duty of teaching these "leaders" how to fly. And it is the specialist who is in the cockpit when we go into combat. I can't even count the number of O-1's who come out of flight school thinking they know everything there is to know about flying. In the army rank matters very little in the cockpit. As a CWO3 I've flown with 0-6 copilots. Tell me who the specialist and generalist is, in that cockpit
Broadsword2004
Registered User
I have been reading through this thread, and I am not quite sure if I've gotten this point-of-view right, but do you mean in the Navy and Marines, aviation officers are pretty much all commissioned and the leader guys (officers) are thus all pilots, whereas in the Army most of the pilots are warrant officers and the leader officers are not pilots (so for example a higher-ranking helicopter aviation officer in the Marines would be experienced in flying helicopters, whereas in the Army, a higher-ranking helicopter aviation officer would not be too experienced in the helos most likely-----instead the Warrants are?).
I know in the Air Force all the higher-ranking guys involved in the aviation usually were pilots at some point or another.
I know in the Air Force all the higher-ranking guys involved in the aviation usually were pilots at some point or another.
It's hard to LEAD from the front when you are one of the least experienced pilots in a unit. That is basically what I was refering to. Army aviation is an entirley different beast.
When my unit returns to Iraq one of 12 regular officers will be aircraft commanders. The rest will be warrants. So most of the experienced pilots in the unit ( warrants ) will have to fly with a very inexperienced 0-2 or 0-3. So who is the leader then?
When my unit returns to Iraq one of 12 regular officers will be aircraft commanders. The rest will be warrants. So most of the experienced pilots in the unit ( warrants ) will have to fly with a very inexperienced 0-2 or 0-3. So who is the leader then?
Broadsword2004
Registered User
Well I mean in the other service that flys combat helos, the Marines, is it the opposite, where officers are the guys with the most experience?
Broadsword2004
Registered User
Hold up, I'm confused; you say, "The Marine Corps does not have WO's flying," then you say, "In the Marine Corps, Warrant Officers will have more experience than your average O-1, O-2 and maybe O-3." How is that if they have no WO's flying??
I am just confused by how you worded your post is all.
I am just confused by how you worded your post is all.
He doesn't mean flying experience, he means experience in general.
To become a WO in the Marine Corps, the MINIMUM time in service is 8 years. Usually it's more like 10-12 years. Sure you will have some prior service Lt's, but you will also have some that are barely 21 or 22 years old. You don't have that with Warrant Officers.
To become a WO in the Marine Corps, the MINIMUM time in service is 8 years. Usually it's more like 10-12 years. Sure you will have some prior service Lt's, but you will also have some that are barely 21 or 22 years old. You don't have that with Warrant Officers.
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