Are There Any "Good Gigs" Left?

[Pags]

I think it all comes down to what you think a "good gig" is. Any what you think may be a good gig now may be very different in a few years after flight school, FRS, and a fleet tour.

I thought my T&E tour was an AWESOME gig and I would've never traded it for an FRS or Station SAR job. But that's me. I don't know what you like and, quite frankly, neither do you yet when it comes to flying aircraft for the Navy.

My .02 is that if you want to keep flying and progressing professionally, you can't go wrong with a path that gets you to your community's WTI designation. Those patches will keep you flying and fighting in the fleet to the max extent possible. And while yes, there are other possibilities and now everyone will throw up an example of a guy they knew this one time, the WTI path seems to be the best "guarantee" one can have.

 

[jmcquate]

I hear you @jmcquate , but the "good gigs" I'm referring to are the ones that keep a gray jet/helo/E-2/C-2 strapped to my back. And flying an F-5 down in the Keys... yeah, that just makes it better.

VFC-111 is a reserve squadron........and they all were rock stars in the fleet........fly Navy and be happy.

 

[azguy]

My .02 is that if you want to keep flying and progressing professionally, you can't go wrong with a path that gets you to your community's WTI designation. Those patches will keep you flying and fighting in the fleet to the max extent possible. And while yes, there are other possibilities and now everyone will throw up an example of a guy they knew this one time, the WTI path seems to be the best "guarantee" one can have.

Sorry for the thread jack... but how does WTI work in the aviation world? The SWOs are rolling out a model to mimic WTI, I'm not sure how closely though, I'm wondering how you do it...

Is it shore or sea duty? Do you have a 'training cadre' as their own (non-deployable) squadron that go around training all the fleet squadrons? Or are WTIs "super"/2nd tour JOs in the deployable squadrons?

 

[HokiePilot]

WTIs are normally selected after their first fleet tour on the way to the weapons schools, NSAWC, or sometimes the RAG. The weapons schools teach tactics and give checkrides to the fleet squadrons. After their shore tour, they often go to fleet squadrons to be Training officers.

 

[PhrogLoop]

Everything you need to know about WTIs is summarized in the last locker room scene of TopGun. Just shoot down a couple of MiG-28s and opportunities knock.

 

[zippy]

I hear you @jmcquate , but the "good gigs" I'm referring to are the ones that keep a gray jet/helo/E-2/C-2 strapped to my back. And flying an F-5 down in the Keys... yeah, that just makes it better.

The unfortunate part of chosing to be a VP guy to avoid the boat is that most end up going to the boat. According to someone I know who did a tour in Millington, PERS actually extended the winging commitment for pilots to 8yrs to get a boat tour out of them. It's both something that is highly encouraged for career diversification and a expectation to stay on the path, and also given out as punishment for letting the community know that you're considering leaving when you're commitment is up. The VP community representation at PERS are very anti letting pilots get out "current". Unless you are able to drag you heels and delay your FRS completion and extend you sea tour and then probably shore tour so your PRD is within 12 months of your MSR, the detailer will likely write you orders to USS BOAT or some sort of non flying, currency killing, job where they need a body to fill. There are remote ways to get to flying for your third tour, but those opportunities won't be around by the time you are up for them, and letting people know that you're looking at bailing once your MSR is up is a pretty surefire way to kill your chances at getting them.

From what I hear the P-8 community has been working hard to snuff out a lot of the anal retentiveness and tactical mediocrity that the P-3 community thrives on, its got that going for it.

The VP community is currently entering a time where a lot of its players are choosing to get out instead of returning to the fleet to be Department Heads. Much of that is driven by having a very low bonus, as well as the mentality of the P-3 community that was witnessed during initial sea and shore tours (Constant weekend flying, broken airplanes, lack luster/intrusive upper echelon leadership at the wing level, lack of feeling relevent etc.) and a lack of transparency by the VP folks at PERS 43 who treat you like you need them to survive (so you should be grateful they're even talking to you at all, let alone ignoring your orders requests and giving you what they want for the sake of the community), and of course low selection rates to O-4 and DH.

Talking to the P-8 guys I know, I have hope that community moral will continue to improve and purge the negative aspects of the VP community in favor of some of the good things it has going for it. It's going to be a long road, however, as the VP community sheds the burden of an aircraft that's been on life support since the end of the Cold War, and the mentality that if it doesn't show that its picking up more than its share of the pain, it will lose funding dollars from Big Navy.

 

[LPO Beck]

Good info as usual, Zippy!

 

[ltedge46]

The unfortunate part of chosing to be a VP guy to avoid the boat is that most end up going to the boat.

Don't kid yourself. The only sure way to "avoid going to the boat" is to not join the Navy. While I didn't choose VP to "avoid the boat", I should be able to retire with 20 years of service, only 2 1/2 of that on an actual boat. Not too shabby. I'm not into selling the boat to JO's as the thing that they need to do, but I will say that I honestly enjoyed my time as a shooter and it did give me great perspective on how good life in my community could be.

Lots of good deals to be had, best way to get them is to earn your way into them. Take control of your career, but realize that most likely you will end up doing something that you didn't see yourself doing or want to do. Make the best of it and realize that nothing is forever in the Navy, orders only last for a limited time.

 

[Brett327]

One wonders why people would join the Navy only to "avoid the boat." Not a criticism, per se, but I'm just curious whether this boat aversion develops prior to entering the service, or at some point in the pipeline prior to selection. Admittedly, I would like the boat a lot less if flying around the boat weren't part of the deal. I suppose that would contribute to the non-TACAIR guys distaste for it.

 

[bunk22]

I'd be pretty surprised if they took COD guys and made them E-2 pilots later in their careers. Seems like that would be too many years of not being in any way integrated into an airwing, and of course the fact that they have never crossed the ramp at night before. No offense to my COD friends, and you guys have enough bennies in your lives that you probably don't care anyway, but I'd bet that would be a really steep learning curve that would not make anyone happy....especially the COD guys

Never crossed the ramp at night before?? I have 78 night traps at night in the COD (left seat) with another 90 or so in the right seat. COD pilots are now night qualifying again as well. I know one particular COD pilot with 100 night traps in the left seat. So please, spare us the COD guys don't fly at night bullshit, thank you

I also know of at least one former COD driver who went E-2's as an O-4 and it's not difficult to "integrate" into the airwing. My first and second COD tours were spent on the boat, not on the beach. I will say, it's better they stay on the beach but being part of the airwing is not a big deal. We used to break the deck from the bottom of the stack as well. Being an E-2 or C-2 guy isn't a big deal either way.

 

[UMichfly]

We used to break the deck from the bottom of the stack angels 1.2 as well. .

Nothing beats doing all the great work to nail your push timing out of the stack and then picking up the dirty COD guys inside the initial as you're approaching it and they snuck in from the starboard D or wherever you sneaky mo-fos hang out. I sure do love spinning it so some shady COD dudes can ditch their DVs and get headed back toward Mai Tai's and per diem .

 

[MIDNJAC]

We used to break the deck from the bottom of the stack as well. Being an E-2 or C-2 guy isn't a big deal either way.

By "breaking the deck" do you mean the DV straight in, while us Charlie folk go below max trap?

Kidding aside, I stand corrected. I will say that I don't know of any guys in my generation (that are in the COD community) with night boat experience, but I was aware that guys like yourself did it back in the times of the dinosaur. I'd say cool that they are doing it again, but I'd personally pass if it were me

 

[zippy]

Admittedly, I would like the boat a lot less if flying around the boat weren't part of the deal. I suppose that would contribute to the non-TACAIR guys distaste for it.

It seems that only worse thing than coming to the boat for a non-flying disassociated sea tour as a non-TACAIR guy is coming to the boat for a non-flying disassociated sea tour as a TACAIR guy (there seems to be more hornet guys getting sent here after their community chooses to discard them). The boat isn't great, but isn't completely terrible as an Officer. However, I've yet to see a disassociated job that a competent SWO couldn't handle doing.

 

[ea6bflyr]

It seems that only worse thing than coming to the boat for a non-flying disassociated sea tour as a non-TACAIR guy is coming to the boat for a non-flying disassociated sea tour as a TACAIR guy (there seems to be more hornet guys getting sent here after their community chooses to discard them). The boat isn't great, but isn't completely terrible as an Officer. However, I've yet to see a disassociated job that a competent SWO couldn't handle doing.

Whoa there friend, let's not get too crazy.

 

[bunk22]

By "breaking the deck" do you mean the DV straight in, while us Charlie folk go below max trap?

Kidding aside, I stand corrected. I will say that I don't know of any guys in my generation (that are in the COD community) with night boat experience, but I was aware that guys like yourself did it back in the times of the dinosaur. I'd say cool that they are doing it again, but I'd personally pass if it were me

lol I am old!!! I've landed a few times with those nice and bright "LOW FUEL" lights on. That shouldn't happen in the war pig!! I say night
landings in the COD isn't necessary but that's above my pay grade.