Are stories of the SWO community valid?

[Uncle Fester]

Where does "look, stab, stab" come from? Or is it just one of those things?

You mean what is it referring to? "Stab stab look stab" is a play on the "shoot shoot look shoot" air-engagement mantra (two birds, evaluate, shoot again). It was big for frigates shooting SM-1's; I'm not sure if the Aegis guys do it or not.

I like nittany's take on it... stab the back in front of you twice, check behind you, stab again. :icon_tong

 

[CAMike]

You mean what is it referring to? "Stab stab look stab" is a play on the "shoot shoot look shoot" air-engagement mantra (two birds, evaluate, shoot again). It was big for frigates shooting SM-1's; I'm not sure if the Aegis guys do it or not.

I like nittany's take on it... stab the back in front of you twice, check behind you, stab again. :icon_tong

The SM-1MR's we shot(during excersises)- I seemd like half of them either turned into submerged rocket projectiles during the first couple miles of flight or they lost the referenece beam and wandered off somewhere in the box. Maybe that's where the shoot -shoot -look -shoot procedure came from on FFG's?

Did I ever thell you the time we fired a torpedo(again-excersice) and the aft lookout called the bridge a couple of minutes later screaming- "Aft Lookout reporting a torpedo's jumpin out of the water and's chasin' us". Gotta love 80's technology.

 

[HAL Pilot]

When I taught TAO school 1990-1991, "Shoot shoot look shoot" was the standard for SM1s and SM2s regardless of platform. There was talk of changing Aegis/newer SM2 blocks to "Shoot look shoot" but the powers that be were leaning toward leaving it alone. Don't know what it is now.

 

[statesman]

Going back to the resistance to change theme:

I have to imagine it is well known that something needs to change inside the community, but it just isn't happening.

I can remember reading an article (I think in Proceedings) as a MID that discussed the need for the SWO community to stop running itself ragged, start getting some sleep, and start taking a more team oriented approach.

As a 1390 that spends a lot of time not on a ship, and not seeing what the SWOs do, I hear little tidbits from friends that chose the surface route, and the only thing I hear is how ruthless and cutthroat the community is.

I dont know exactly what they are referring to when they say that fellow JOs stab each other in the back, but it sounds like they are in a completely different Navy than I am in. Here in the TRACOM even when we are ranked against each other and most want their shot at Tailhook, fellow students are constantly gouging each other up and helping their buddies do better in school.

Someone said earlier that until the number of lives lost and steel bent crosses a certain threshold the community will stay the same and continue to resist change. I suppose thats understandable, and maybe aviation just learned the lessons sooner than the SWOs. We hear constantly that NATOPS is written in blood, as with many of our regulations... unfortunate and morbid and horrible as it may be, its entirely possible that more people need to die before the problem becomes "real" and the surface fleet has to rework itself.

 

[flyersfan12]

From taking time and reading through more of the threads, I'm under the impression that while SWO-dom allows an officer to experience alot of things that have no counterpart in the civilian world, it comes with a ton of headaches (much more so than the other communities).


Headaches and hassles aside, how personally satisfying is it to be able to encourage, lead, and support the enlisted sailors as an SWO? Does trying to build a positive environment and watching the people under your guidance excel at their jobs make up for the tediousness of SWO-life?

 

[Uncle Fester]

From taking time and reading through more of the threads, I'm under the impression that while SWO-dom allows an officer to experience alot of things that have no counterpart in the civilian world, it comes with a ton of headaches (much more so than the other communities).

Headaches and hassles aside, how personally satisfying is it to be able to encourage, lead, and support the enlisted sailors as an SWO? Does trying to build a positive environment and watching the people under your guidance excel at their jobs make up for the tediousness of SWO-life?

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, man. "Encourage, lead, and support the enlisted sailors"? You sound like you write Official Navy Bullshit for a living. You sure you're not a troll from CNO's office?

Being a SWO is misery on a stick.* If you just read the job description, it's not a bad gig - paperwork, and some boat-driving - and it shouldn't be a bad job. There are some good days and some upsides to the job and it's definitely more interesting than filling out TPS reports in some office park, but on the whole, the vicious backstabbing and buffoonery of some of your fellow officers make for a very painful way to serve your country.

* - the stick is shoved up your ass, in case you were wondering

 

[skim]

Headaches and hassles aside, how personally satisfying is it to be able to encourage, lead, and support the enlisted sailors as an SWO? Does trying to build a positive environment and watching the people under your guidance excel at their jobs make up for the tediousness of SWO-life?

Very and Yes.

 

[flyersfan12]

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, man. "Encourage, lead, and support the enlisted sailors"? You sound like you write Official Navy Bullshit for a living. You sure you're not a troll from CNO's office?

Yeah yeah, I was trying to find something more positive than "manage and oversee" without sounding like a complete douche, but with 3:00am insomnia it looks like I only partially succeeded. :icon_tong



And Skim, thank you for the response, if there are good tangible benefits like that, it sounds like it'd be worth it. (Besides, how often do you *really* get the opportunity to drive a 500-ft boat that's armed to the teeth??)

 

[scoolbubba]

And Skim, thank you for the response, if there are good tangible benefits like that, it sounds like it'd be worth it. (Besides, how often do you *really* get the opportunity to drive a 500-ft boat that's armed to the teeth??)

Hopefully only once, and it was on summer cruise.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Besides, how often do you *really* get the opportunity to drive a 500-ft boat that's armed to the teeth??

I've been told that I stomped on the dreams of the last bright-eyed SWOlet-wannabe who came 'round a tad too hard. So I'll just say, if by "driving" you mean giving rudder orders while the Captain yells at you from CIC, then chase those dreams, baby.

 

[Steve Shedd]

Wow!! After reading this thread all the way through I'm not quite sure what the motive for SWO bashing has been in this thread, although clearly some HSL bubbas in the mix have some baggage. I think it's all about perspective and here's mine:

1) SWOs, Aviators and Submarines compose the combat arms of the Navy. They are all critical and also distinct in culture. I would rather be combat arms than anything else. We all picked our paths, hopefully for good reasons...it is what it is!

2) Everyone who joins the Navy will end up on ships if they want to stay competitive. Ships = Navy. No surprise there. Carrier pilots will cruise on the "boat," HSL bubbas will cruise on small boys, JAG, Docs, nurses all get some form of sea time to stay competitive. Even HR Officers will now be TRAINOs aboard CVNs in order to remain competitive at the statutory boards.

3) Keeping a ship running and trained for combat operations is labor intensive. It requires an enormous amount of hard work with a lot wheel spinning at times and certainly not all fun. I don't believe for second other communities are all rosy. Each community has goods and bads.

4) The more senior you get, the working hours and level of effort seem to reach parity. The Aviator CO of an LPD has the same responsibilities as the SWO CO of a CG. Different mission sets, of course, but the same burden of commanding a ship. I can't compare Squadron CO to Ship CO, simply different animals. But, still time-consuming and challenging.

5) A good deal of pain within a ship or squadron is caused by entities outside the life lines. Staffers wreak havoc. For example, the random Thursday tasker from some GS-7 at NAVSEA or NAVAIR that trickles down to TYCOM and reaches commands Friday afternoon with a COB deadline. I don't believe for a moment the Aviation Community is immune to this. I've also experienced and witnessed churn created by non-SWO active duty staffers. The enterprising O-4 non-SWO on the Fleet staff who decides to innocently shoot an e-mail directly to a ship XO/OPS about a sked change or something to that effect. The XO/OPS thinks the information is valid, assuming the decision has been properly staffed and approved, gets the ball moving only to find out the information/decision was not staffed and was not approved and skipped a number of rungs in the chain-of-command.

That's the perspective part.

As for my decision to go SWO, I wanted to be one since I was 12 and first smelled a ship....yep...that fresh paint mixed with generic cleaner mixed with neverdull mixed with who knows what. I wish I could bottle it up as a cologne. After my first U/W on mid-cruise that was it for me. I did flirt with the Marine Corps a little, but in the end I realized I loved ships. I have thoroughly enjoyed the leadership aspects and challenges of each job I've had as a SWO. And by saying challenges, I'm not saying pain. Each job I've had as a SWO has been different and I've been able to learn new skills. The more senior I get the smaller and tighter the brothers and sisters of the community get - of course that's true for all the communities.

Leading Sailors aboard ships at sea is the foundation of our service and I honestly can't think of anything I'd rather be doing. But its all cool. I'd certainly jump at the chance to get a CAT shot in an F-18 or do under-ice ops in a sub or be a riverine OIC. It's all great. I only wish we could stay in for 40 years and also stay 25 years old for the entire time. If someone figures out how to do that, let me know!

 

[adamshahan]

Can someone please tell me, in depth, why SWO is the most dreaded career to have in the navy? I am thinking about applying for SWO because it has a high-selection rate. The selection rate for SWO is around 50% while intel and IW are around 9%. Are there any other communities that have high selection rates?

 

[Seafort]

Community Confusion

Okay, I'll admit it, I'm on airwarriors, and about to ask some questions not about my chances of getting NFO because I want it, but in spite of the fact I don't.

I am taking the ASTB on Oct 13th (Happy Birthday, Navy!), and I have been hardcore studying for two weeks at least two, three hours every day.

Some things to be aware of, (those of you on other forums may recognise me, despite using different names on each forum). I've gotten the OCS-centric opinions, the SWO-centric opinions, and am now interested in hearing the Airdale-centric opinions.

Facts:

25 years old.

Male.

Former Midshipman. DORed right before commissioning. Right thing to do, wasn't mature. Would have made a terrible JO. Needed to grow up. Yet in some ways, this process is definitely making me relive some things. With a full experience as a mid, I will always see myself as coming from that background, even if I commission via OCS. I imagine having both experiences would be odd.

Part and parcel of my immaturity is a low GPA: 2.7. After a thorough reaming from my PRB (two O-5s, and two O-3s) my last three semesters were 13 As, 2 Bs, 1 C, however. It was not enough to make feel like I had fixed myself to proceed on to commissioning. There were issues of leadership and shoddy military bearing. Not to mention a mistake in my bibliography on a naval science paper that almost lead to a charge of plagiarism and academic misconduct. It was a mistake (stupidity, not malice, caused by pulling an all nighter on nothing but junkfood and jolt cola) and the charge was never substantiated. Still, I believe the proper term for Midshipman First Class Seafort was "sh*tbag."

That was four years ago.

Did grow up. Great career, great bank balance, investments. Responsible adult. Nothing but great FITREPs/EVALs from my civilian chain of command. Midshipman who knew me then and are officers now have noted the difference, and they support me completely.

Ready to go OCS. Have an application process going, hence the ASTB.

O-3 Pilot and O-5 SWO XO ready to endorse, O-6 Commodore considering endorsing.

Very weak on math. Even weaker now that it has been four years. English degree, emphasis in Journalism. Received As and Bs in college math courses, but only by taking them in isolated summer semesters, abusing my professor's generosity, and hiring tutors. Getting through basic algebra was one of the hardest things I've ever done. Words I get. Numbers, not so much.

Honestly, I want to be a SWO. No offense. Driving ships is just where I feel I belong. However, more than that, I want to be a naval officer. I want to repay the faith that was invested in me as a mid, and now that my life is tracking, I want to pursue a dream I said was important but did a pretty lousy job of proving. If that means NFO, I will do my very best in that pipeline. The commission is important; whatever the job is will become so.

I was told NFO was a good shot, but I have also been told that many people who do not select for aviation get shunted over to SWO. Is it possible that I could somehow get selected for NFO but not SWO? It at all likely?

I want to mazimise my chances of getting that commission, and if aviation is it, point me to the brown shoes. I'll do whatever it takes.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Wow, stirring biography. Thanks for sharing. We're all the richer for it.

So...am I reading this right? You want SWO but are worried about being forced to take NFO? If so, that's such a weird stance to take that I have no idea where to begin. However, I was a SWO. I fought and scratched and clawed to get out of the Blackshoe world as fast as I could and into the NFO pipeline.

And also, if you take some time to peruse the AW ROE and previous threads, you'll notice that "what are my chances?" questions are very strongly frowned upon.

 

[bob88899]

On your OCS application only put SWO if thats what you want... If you dont put it down.. you wont be selected for it.. i think thats how it works? right? I selected NFO and SWO as my second choice..

Anyways it looks like you grew up and want it, so good luck!