Any info on Vance for Primary? (Good or Bad)

[Butternts]

Ok, I've heard that at Vance you have to report 6 days a week for 12 hours a day to study in the ready-room even though you may not be flying. :sleep_125
I'm not to excited about that, but is it as bad as it seems? Is it helpful? Does it throw you off when coming back to a Navy facility for Advanced? How long does it take to get through? Do you have to live on base (with dependents)? How is the housing? Do you get to fly a lot (good weather)? I know that area and have family there, but I'm not sure that those benefits would out number the down-falls. Any information that you may have will help. Thanks!

N-ever
A-gain
V-olunteer
Y-ourself

(Yah, Yah, I know!)
Save me before I do something stupid!
or convince me that it isn't that stupid!

 

[gaijin6423]

Not there, personally, but one of the guys from my TBS platoon is. His impression: "There is nothing here but cow **** and tumbleweeds." One Ensign here in Corpus for advanced said that he didn't mind Vance that much, though.

 

[vv123]

Don't come to Vance. They do make the students stay there 12 hours a day and then go home to do more work and studying. Everything is spoon-fed, but there is lots of hazing (such as stand up EP's, IP's yelling at you during the flights, etc.). The only pro to Vance is that you will get done with primary in a shorter timeframe than navy training; but what is a couple of months when you just signed up for 8 years?

The mentality of air force primary compared to navy primary is completely different. Corpus or Whiting is much more laid back and the IP's are more like your big brother. You show up for your flight and after it's over you can go home, even if it is 11am. The IP's will ask about your background and try to get to know you on a personal level. The IP's will call you by your first name, unlike the air force IP's who call you by your title (i.e., Ensign Smith). It's more like a fraternity that you are joining. Plus you get to live in either Pensacola or Corpus - two towns with everything you and your family need and would want.

Enid is a town of 40 thousand where the nicest restaurant is a Chili's and the anchor store in the mall is a Big Lots. Although Wichita, Tulsa, and Oklahoma City are no more than two hours away, you will be locked up in the squadron for twelve hours a day. If you are married, your wife would probably get pretty bored while you are gone all day, every day, given what Enid has to offer. If you are single and there are rooms available, then you will live in the BOQ on base.

In terms of flight hours and professional development: if you are Navy/Marines, then Navy training is probably better for you. First off, you get more flight hours in navy primary/intermediate than air force. You get more instrument training. The rules/regs you learn will be the navy regs and not the ridiculous and anal air force regs. Plus you'll go through primary with guys who you will go through advanced and even the FRS with. In addition, if you have any civilian time, the T-34 flying characteristics and landing pattern is similar to cessna/piper type flying, unlike the T-37.

All in all, the feeling at vance is as if you are a plebe/freshman again at some service academy: long, long days, being talked down to, living on campus, etc. Where as the Navy treats you much differently: study on your own, if you are done with your event then you go home, beer, much more informal.

Go to corpus or whiting if you can. Hope this helps.

 

[Bevo16]

The only pro to Vance is that you will get done with primary in a shorter timeframe than navy training; but what is a couple of months when you just signed up for 8 years?

There were 2 guys from my API class who went to Vance. They both ended up at Milton and we classed up within 2 weeks of each other for advanced, so I don't think that Air Force training is that much faster.

 

[Future Herc Driver]

The 12 hour days dont last the whole time you are at Vance. I really dont buy the whole spoon feeding thing either. When you show up to the flight line, you are expected to know a lot which requires a ton of studying on your own. Yeah, standups suck, and they may be different than doing them in the plane, but it helps to talk through complex situations while you are on the ground, that way if you did get them in real life, you have "seen" it before. Similar to chair flying but with a twist, since your whole class and most of the instructors are watching you, its quite stressful. I went through Whiting, and definitely liked doing EP's in the air, but I definitely believe standups have their place.
If you want your instructor to be your buddy and be on a first name basis with you, go the civilian route. Any of the bases you go to, you WILL be referred to by your last name and rank by over 90% of the instructors. I cant believe this is even a complaint. These are professional military organizations and its just part of doing business. If you go to Whiting and expect to be on a first name basis with any of the Marine instructors, you will be locked up at attention while they have a little chat with you if you try.
I believe you will get great training anywhere you go, Ive seen both the Navy and AF sides of it. Im greatful I was able to go to Whiting and see how another service works. I think joint training is a good idea and helps make you a more rounded officer. For my money though, I would try Moody, the T-6 kicks the Mentor's a*s any day.
Keep your options open man, Primary pretty much sucks anyway you slice it.

 

[zab1001]

(a) concur with Herc and the whole first name thing. I had one IP in primary call me by my first name, and that was my USN on-wing AFTER I had my solo.

(b) if you are USN/USMC/USCG bust your ass to stay in the normal USN/USMC/USCG program a la Whiting or Corpus. You joined the Naval Service. Trust me, you will get your 'joint' qual in the real world. No one will give a sh!t which route you went once you hit the Fleet. When you fly that real-world multi service combat hop, you will be laughed at if you try to bring up "oh I went to Moody/Vance (or whatever), I can help...". It's PRIMARY. Get over it. No one will care either way. Stay with your bros, learn from Fleet guys as much as possible.

"Well rounded officer"...yeah...not so much. No one is going to care where you did your training at when they consider you for promotion/aircraft commander/mission commander, orders, etc etc etc. It's great to have the experience of working with other services and all (I don't regret advaced and the USMC/USCG/USAF interaction), but come on. It's like comparing education recieved in grade school to grad school. I've done a sh!tload of joint ops, and not once has any kind of joint flight school experience played a part in whether or not the job got done. We're all professionals. When the time comes, you'll get the job done. Stay Naval if you can.

 

[petescheu]

This thread has already been beat up too... do a search for "Anyone Been to Vance or Moody." Should give some more good information.

 

[Bevo16]

If you want your instructor to be your buddy and be on a first name basis with you, go the civilian route. Any of the bases you go to, you WILL be referred to by your last name and rank by over 90% of the instructors. I cant believe this is even a complaint. These are professional military organizations and its just part of doing business.

I didn't think that it was necessary to be buddies with your IP, but being on a first name basis is not over the line either. Ensigns/1LTs are junior officers just the same as a LT or Captain. The instructor should be a good enough officer/teacher to get to know the student and present a learning environment that works for them. If the student performs better on a first name/callsign environment, they should go with that. If the student tries to take advantage of what they think is a relaxed environment, then it is the instructor's job to make sure that the SNA is reminded of his professional responsibilities and that they should not mistake a good learning environment for an opportunity to slack.

If you go to Whiting and expect to be on a first name basis with any of the Marine instructors, you will be locked up at attention while they have a little chat with you if you try.

It sounds like there are some Marines at north field who need to get over themselves. My on-wing in Corpus was a Marine frog pilot, and he was cool as ****. He introduced himself by his call sign and that what he wanted to be called. He would have given me a below average in headwork if I called him "Captian" in the cockpit. He also didn't hesitate to stomp on my dick if I screwed something up in the air. I knew who the boss was, and I did not have to call him "sir" 100 times a day to maintain good order and disapline. It's part of being a professional. Anyone who would lock up another JO for not calling them by their rank is a douche-bag in my humble opinion. Navy pilots have call signs for a reason. Use them.

 

[rare21]

Bevo, I know EXACTLY who your onwing was after you saying that. Awesome guy.

My onwing in primary called me by my first name and to this day a lot of instructors will call you by your first name which i prefer (i did not call him by his first name). My onwing in helo land called me by my ENTIRE first name which was awesome and quite a feat since most wont get it right. No matter what it is, a relaxed atmosphere does help in learning.

 

[Bevo16]

My onwing in helo land called me by my ENTIRE first name which was awesome and quite a feat since most wont get it right.

Most guys can't pronounce Rogerioenriquemiguelmantoya?

I wonder why not?

I sent you a PM.