An impossible ask . . . .

[nodropinufaka]

1. Anti-Terrorism is a global security issue. We have entire commands and military elements dedicated to fighting it.

2. We did not lose Afghanistan…the war there isn’t over. While I can understand the sophomoric (not intended as an insult, just a reflection of your education level) stance, I can’t even figure how you think Iraq was “lost” when we still have 2500 people there, their government is still in place, and the nation is actively pursuing ISIS (for example some recent news…https://news.yahoo.com/us-shoots-down-pair-iranian-172700737.html) BLUF…you are entirely WRONG about an ISIS takeover in Iraq and have no measure to support your argument.

3. Put your little political claws away…some of us were actually there, on the ground, in Iraq, in 2003, and we discovered over 5000 violations of the treaty. The press wanted us to find “Fat Man” and “Little Boy” atomic bombs in a room with stacks of yellow cake uranium but in truth the teams looked for and found 5,000 chemical warheads, shells or aviation bombs. Oh, we also found the components of Iraq’s “Super Gun” that was supposed to have been destroyed. I can’t help what you think might be a WMD, but they were discovered.

4. I will argue that Afghanistan is, actually, better off. The Taliban is already feeling the sting of a people who know and love some measure of freedom. Afghan women aren’t going back and resistance will rise. Moreover, the war there is not over and internal fighting will continue. It took 20 years, but the young know freedom and education and they will fight for it even if only in small ways.

Interesting you say we found WMDs and blame the press when the entire IC considers the fact no WMDs were found as a major intelligence failure.

I don’t discount they were violating treaties but we didn’t find what we claimed they were holding.

 

[Griz882]

Interesting you say we found WMDs and blame the press when the entire IC considers the fact no WMDs were found as a major intelligence failure.

I don’t discount they were violating treaties but we didn’t find what we claimed they were holding.

Blame? Where do you find “blame?” The record shows more than 5000 treaty violations under Saddam. Interesting that you don’t grasp the difference.

PS…the entire IC absolutely does not agree with you but some of it does.

 

[AllYourBass]

Iraq’s “Super Gun”

Down the Wikipedia rabbit hole I go! If I don't make it back, tell my wife, "Hello."

 

[Griz882]

Down the Wikipedia rabbit hole I go! If I don't make it back, tell my wife, "Hello."

You’ll find it!

 

[nodropinufaka]

Blame? Where do you find “blame?” The record shows more than 5000 treaty violations under Saddam. Interesting that you don’t grasp the difference.

PS…the entire IC absolutely does not agree with you but some of it does.

The IC finds it to be a failure. I guess entire was a poor choice of words.

But the failure of it is extensively talked about as a case study of what went wrong.

It was not a success and the assessments were wrong.

 

[Griz882]

The IC finds it to be a failure. I guess entire was a poor choice of words.

But the failure of it is extensively talked about as a case study of what went wrong.

It was not a success and the assessments were wrong.

As I noted...parts of the IC. As to "what went wrong" nothing. Iraq is a rapidly developing democratic nation with an eye on the future. Yes, ISIS is real and dangerous but it certainly will not unseat the government in Iraq.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

It's absolutely useless. You can accomplish everything the diversity initiatives claim to do with a swingin' steel beach, plenty of beer, and a few good port calls.

That's kind of my point.

If it is useless then why do people care so much? I can think of a million useless things the Navy or DOD spend money on but I don't care enough to post all over social media and message boards about it.

 

[nodropinufaka]

As I noted...parts of the IC. As to "what went wrong" nothing. Iraq is a rapidly developing democratic nation with an eye on the future. Yes, ISIS is real and dangerous but it certainly will not unseat the government in Iraq.

Nothing went wrong?

Compare the war to the reasoning in the AUMF and we failed on almost every aspect.

 

[Griz882]

Nothing went wrong?

Compare the war to the reasoning in the AUMF and we failed on almost every aspect.

I don’t think you know what you are talking about with reference to the AMuF, it was built upon six primary pointsSo re it is in broad strokes.

1. Iraq's noncompliance with the conditions of the 1991 ceasefire agreement including interference with U.N. weapons inspections (Proven).

2. Iraq "continuing to possess and develop a significant chemical and biological weapons capability" and "actively seeking a nuclear weapons capability" posed a "threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region. (I’ll give you half on that one - no nuke stuff found).

3. Iraq's “brutal repression of its civilian population." (Proven)

4. Iraq's "capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people.” (Proven).

5. Iraq's hostility towards the United States as demonstrated by the 1993 assignation attempt on former POTUS Bush and firing on coalition aircraft enforcing the no fly zones authorized by the UN. (Proven).

4. Members of al-Qaeda known to be in Iraq. (False)

5. Iraq's "continu[ing] to aid and harbor other international organizations," including anti-United States terrorist organizations. (Proven)

6. Iraq paid bounty to families of suicide bombers. (Really a repetition of #5 but Proven).

So basically we had six reasons stated in the AMUF to go to increase offensive actions against Iraq and we proved 4.5 of them. The nuke stuff was only a small part of the matter.

 

[Pags]

Down the Wikipedia rabbit hole I go! If I don't make it back, tell my wife, "Hello."

It's a beige alert!

It's also a great rabbit hole. Mad Canadian scientists, shooting payloads into orbit with battleship guns, and assassins.

 

[Griz882]

It's a beige alert!

It's also a great rabbit hole. Mad Canadian scientists, shooting payloads into orbit with battleship guns, and assassins.

Doesn’t get better!

 

[Randy Daytona]

Down the Wikipedia rabbit hole I go! If I don't make it back, tell my wife, "Hello."

PBS’s Frontline had an episode on it years ago that you may find interesting.

 

[Jim123]

It's a beige alert!

It's also a great rabbit hole. Mad Canadian scientists, shooting payloads into orbit with battleship guns, and assassins.

It's a pretty crazy story. I remember it being in the news even during Desert Shield (although it predated the invasion of Kuwait by several months). Before Desert Storm started, there was a lot of popular speculation in the west about Iraq's military might (which quieted down pretty quickly after the transition to Desert Storm), and the super gun was part of that mystique.

In an interview, Bull's son later said that his dad talked a lot; I'd paraphrase that to mean that maybe the man didn't fully recognize that he was all-in on an international high stakes game (all-in in the fullest meaning of the term). The hit job was brazen but it shouldn't have surprised anyone, least of all Bull himself.

 

[jmcquate]

Meh.........Krupp did it first before they switched to coffee makers.

 

[Griz882]

Meh.........Krupp did it first before they switched to coffee makers.

Just be glad Keurig didn’t get into the arms business…we’d all be speaking Massachusettian!