Austin-Powers
Powers By Name, Powers By Reputation
It must be URT-ttitating ?
-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Air Force v.s. Navy Culture Differences
- Thread starter druteague
- Start date
It must be URT-ttitating ?
Just had a very interesting brief from the Air Force/DOD lead for Jepp/Foreflight (Boeing) - including all the Navy programs. Jepp FMS NAV data apparently already standard on P-8 and E-2D, with more coming every month. Here's the summary slide from latest contract.
Cries in being a West Coast bubba and not being able to fly with an IPad/EFB.
It’s paper pubs only.. which haven’t even been getting to us before the old ones expire which is super gucci.
Here’s a cultural difference…the almighty “PI Special” belt buckle [see below]…I’ve never seen any USAF vet wear one of these. I work with a hefty number of USAF vets at my civilian job…and they really dig giving me grief about my “PI Special” belt buckle…and I really dig giving them grief for looking “down there”. ?
Pic from a few minutes ago…
Pic from a few minutes ago…
That's truly a HAZREP... slut shame your leadership until they fix it. IPad EFB with fully qualified Foreflight MFB, with Jepp coverage for outside CONUS is almost an MEL item. It's unsafe to fly with paper. Not to mention combat ineffective. Oh and if you don't have a stratus puck in your jet to do own-ship on your iPad, fix that too.
Last edited:
The E-2d can't legally fly using the fms in actual IMC though, it's essentially tacan only
I disagree, and I fly with ForeFlight every flight. It is not a MEL item.
If you can’t navigate, using paper pubs, without ForeFlight then you have absolutely zero business flying with it.
ForeFlight is an aid, not a crutch. There’s a significant difference between the two.
Same with the UH/HH-60M, except we have TACAN, VOR and ILS. Thirteen years into service and we are just now, in a limited way, get IFR GPS...on SOME of our aircraft (the ones deploying to Europe). It's a Garmin hack.
I don't really understand what you or the slide are saying. Are you saying that Foreflight is providing an additional DAFIF file that the P-8 can load that's above and beyond (in this case using Jepp data) than what the Navy provides? Or is the only way that the P-8 is able to load DAFIF data is through Boeing?
You mention that more aircraft are coming every month...what does that mean? Is Foreflight (or Jeppsen) passing DAFIF to the military so that it can be included in a DAFIF download into JMPS? Otherwise it seems like a feel-good brag, as there's no way to get the data onto the JMPS computer otherwise (unless Foreflight is providing classified internet access).
I wouldn't be surprised if the P-8 has a proprietary mission planning system that is specific to Boeing (I'd be curious to hear from the VP guys), but a lot of other fleet aircraft end up pulling their nav data in through JMPS (or whatever JSF uses, if different).
JSF SAP mission planning computers means that JSF uses occasionally delivered DAFIF discs from NGA, uploaded into SAP JMPS and forgotten about. No RNAV capability, can load a few hundred points to the jet by referencing them in JMPS, or by using the world's greatest EFB (MAGTAB) to search and transcribe the lat/long.
USMC JSF doesn't allow any other EFB (restrictive SAP SOP), so we use contracted Samsung MAGTABs running AeroApp with data downloaded periodically from the NGA Aeronautical website and manually transferred to the Linux MAGTAB hub computer. Especially frustrating watching Navy JSF pulling out Foreflight in the same plane.
Jeppesen has been contracted DoD wide to provide service validated DAFIF data through a packaging service that is fully integrated with JMPS according to the folks here - P-8 and E-2D were native launch platforms for Navy - presenter talked through other platforms that are being released this year and next. I did not hear V-22. But Boeing and Jepp basically got the big thumbs up over NGA it sounds like. Default will be Jepp data in All service aircraft with FMS.
On the FLIP/Chart side - Jepp charts getting more DOD FLIP type features (Cat E mins for pointy nose types, depiction of TACAN, HI TACAN penetration style approaches, COPTER approaches, etc.) Available to Navy / Marines through Foreflight or Jepp Military Charting Service.
DoD wide there is universal Foreflight pricing ~ $200 / year for every aviator that wants it.
More fuel that traditional paper NGA FLIPS are somehow a safer alternative is garbage. Every pilot in DoD should have FF MFB for unrestricted operational use. Units creating hypothetical cyber security issues with iPad is also garbage. Every threat vector is mitigated. The Android based NGA EFB solution is laughably bad.
Standard "not invented here" NAVAIR PMA mentality.
You a Rhino dude? We recently got iPads with ForeFlight turned back on in JSF land. Happy to provide our SOPs if it will give you guys something to press the Wing on it.
Yeah I’m a Rhino dude. I know you guys got it turned back on so I’m hoping maybe in the next couple of months we get it back too.
It’s just a whole bunch of stupidity around the EFBs and then PEDs as well.
It's almost funny when NFOs are the ones holding it up. Makes me wonder how they got the TSP to invest all their money in pulp mills.