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NEWS Air Force leadership talks frankly about pilot retention

nittany03

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Gatordev said:
As the Admin O, the CMC came to me and told me that there were some changes and I should update the Evals. I just kind of paused for a moment, as this was a typical situation of the E-9 tasking the O-4, and mind you as DHs, we've already made our final chop.
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I'd be more shocked if I hadn't seen basically the exact same thing happen when I was PersO. Admin yeomanized all the evals, AO and I did final tweaks . . . and then our incompetent CMC insisted on shitting all over everything with his 8th grade grammar before sending it VFR direct to the XO.

Needless to say, that happened once before my boss basically went to war about it. End result was that nothing went to the head shed without the AO being the final chop. Later, we got a CMC that was actually worth something.
 
E

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
nittany03 said:
I'd be more shocked if I hadn't seen basically the exact same thing happen when I was PersO. Admin yeomanized all the evals, AO and I did final tweaks . . . and then our incompetent CMC insisted on shitting all over everything with his 8th grade grammar before sending it VFR direct to the XO.

Needless to say, that happened once before my boss basically went to war about it. End result was that nothing went to the head shed without the AO being the final chop. Later, we got a CMC that was actually worth something.
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I find it sad that the USN has continually put people in the position of CMC that cannot spell, or have proper communication skills.

I guess I could take it farther and say it is sad that we have made CPO's that also cannot spell or communicate, I am friends with some of them and to see their emails and/or FB post just makes my head hurt.
 
nittany03

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
NavyOffRec said:
I find it sad that the USN has continually put people in the position of CMC that cannot spell, or have proper communication skills.

I guess I could take it farther and say it is sad that we have made CPO's that also cannot spell or communicate, I am friends with some of them and to see their emails and/or FB post just makes my head hurt.
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Hell, I've seen LDOs whose emails read like they were written by a 4th grader.
 
zippy

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Farva01 said:
It could be worse...I don't know how exactly, but it could be...
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You could have a boss thats afraid of flying and/or not tactically competent and spends all of their time focusing on the admin side of the house of cards. Its fucking awful when that happens... hopefully its just a VP phenomenon...

Treetop Flyer said:
Admin is an O-4 squadron billet in the Navy? We always had a FNG as S-1 for six months or a year until a new FNG took over.
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Never underestimate the Navy's ability to prioritize minutia...
 
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HackerF15E

HackerF15E

Retired Strike Pig Driver
None
Swanee said:
Really? Civilian CFIs attriting student pilots? When I was in IFS it was made very clear that this was an introductory program as the DCA (and I believe CNATRA) at the time was adamantly against civilians being able to attrite flight students from a military flight training program.
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You guys may be talking about different things. For a time in the early-mid '00s, IFS was performed at local FBOs by civilian CFIs, and very much not the same screening program as the Doss Aviation program in Pueblo, which is administered by the AF directly.
 
Uncle Fester

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
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Treetop Flyer said:
Is that considered as competitive as OPSO or MO? In a VMA it was typically a brand new JO, so the XO typically had a lot of involvement.
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In VAW it was used as a 'starter' job (TrainO was the other) for new DHs. Typically they'd then move on to be the MO or OPS when those jobs became vacant. I don't know how other communities do it.

Assuming the AO was squared away, he'd function as almost a Deputy XO.
 
Gatordev

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Treetop Flyer said:
Is that considered as competitive as OPSO or MO? In a VMA it was typically a brand new JO, so the XO typically had a lot of involvement.
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No, it's DH billet (generally) that has you in a holding pattern until you can get cycled to OpsO or MO. As a FTS, it's a little different job than on the AC side, and is incredibly busy managing all of the SELRES and the monies. A good AO will also be looking out for the front office on what kind of drills/orders can be legally used and when.

Or you can be a bump on the log and just sign stuff when the Chief pushes it in front of you. But don't worry, that person went on to be a NOSC CO with no real Reserve management experience. Mission Accomplished.
 
Flash

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Uncle Fester said:
In VAW it was used as a 'starter' job (TrainO was the other) for new DHs. Typically they'd then move on to be the MO or OPS when those jobs became vacant. I don't know how other communities do it.
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Seemed to be pretty standard across most communities I saw, though with Safety being the other 'starter' DH job elsewhere.
 
LFCFan

LFCFan

*Insert nerd wings here*
BACONATOR said:
Perhaps it might be beneficial conceptually, but since AF IFS has morphed from a "screening" into essentially "phase 0" of pilot training, I imagine it would prove ineffective overall and cost/time prohibitive. AF IFS consists of civilian CFIs who fancy themselves military IPs who are the "gatekeepers" to being a pilot. It models pilot training via formal briefs, standups, and other practices adopted from actual pilot training. From what my students told me, in many ways IFS was more painful and difficult than phase 1 (read: AF primary).
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My brother went through several years ago and had an experience like you described; changes were made, and my sister's experience was not nearly as painful as his was. Apparently a good deal of sanity was restored to the program.
 
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