Air Force Force Shaping

[g2s]

From now until Jan 2009, the AF will be reducing it's manning in the fighter/bomber communities. A lot of rookie guys with <400 or <450 hrs (community dependant) will have to choose between UAVs, AFSOC, reserves, and/or voluntary seperations. I fall into this force shaping group.

My question is what kind of training would an AF trained fighter/bomber pilot have to go through for an interservice transfer to the Navy? Not interested in knowing the IST admin process, just the requirements needed to get FMC on the Navy side of the house. Would the Navy want AF fighter/bomber guys trained into an F-18 variant/EA-6B?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Swanee]

Go Guard. Seriously. I know of a few Guard units who would be more than willing to take a fighter guy with 400 hours. You know enough to be able to fly and they can train you for their specialty and to fit into their unit.

 

[alwyn2nd]

Air Guard/Reserve is a great solution but be advised. You must be flexible in your career choices in aviation whether it's military or civilian. There are Air Guard/Reserves fighter units turning in their F-16s for UAS. Timing is everything in this business. Times are a changin'.

 

[Swanee]

There are Air Guard/Reserves fighter units turning in their F-16s for UAS. Timing is everything in this business. Times are a changin'.

There are Guard Units that are losing their airplanes, but BRAC didn't realign anyone to UAVs in the Guard. Syracuse (174th FW) is adding a Predator sqaudron in addition to the 138th that flies the Viper. Right now is an interesting time to be in the Guard. There are lots of airplanes moving around, with a few units gaining a few airplanes in the process. Those units will want fighter guys with low hours.

You are an O-2 with between 400 and 450 hours, If you play the game and your cards well you will have no problem joining a Guard unit.

 

[g2s]

Go Guard. Seriously. I know of a few Guard units who would be more than willing to take a fighter guy with 400 hours. You know enough to be able to fly and they can train you for their specialty and to fit into their unit.

Why do you think I would benefit by going Guard vs Navy?

I would like to stay active duty flying jets, which is why I'm looking at a Navy option. I will admit, reserve units are a very viable option. I imagine I'd be at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to ANG/AFRC full time jobs for a long time. Would that be a correct assumption?

 

[alwyn2nd]

Swanee

Lastest aicraft swaps for the Air Guard under Brac just 2 F-16 squadrons for now.

15 F-16 of the 111FS/TxANGB for Predators

15 F-16 178FS/NDANGB for Predators and C-21 and JCA

 

[Flash]

Why do you think I would benefit by going Guard vs Navy?

I would like to stay active duty flying jets, which is why I'm looking at a Navy option. I will admit, reserve units are a very viable option. I imagine I'd be at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to ANG/AFRC full time jobs for a long time. Would that be a correct assumption?

I have never heard of anyone going from USAF fighter pilot to US Navy fighter pilot. I do know of plenty of guys going from USN to ANG.......I would think it has been done but there would be some serious pain on your part to get there I imagine.

The big thing is learning to land on the boat, the pilots can tell you more but a significant portion of advanced jet and E-2/C-2 training is taken up by practicing to land on the boat. I would imagine that they would have to send you to advanced for 3-6 months (just a guess?) just so you can learn to land on the boat. That is quite an investment, and I am not sure the Navy would be willing to throw money down on it.

That is the reason several people have mentioned the Guard. I know guys in the USAFR and the ANG and they fly as much as they want, some pretty much full time without officially being 'full time'. That applies to almost all guard units that I know of, fighter and other.

What exactly do you fly in the USAF?

There are several recruiters on this forum, hopefully they can chime in and tell you more.

 

[g2s]

Flash, check your PM.

 

[wilsonator]

I met a F-15 guy a while back who went to the Navy on an exchange tour to fly Prowlers. He didn't go through T-45s but instead the E-A6B RAG and got carrier qualled there. He said it wasn't too bad and he did fine and he had a great time. So it's possible, I'm sure there is more interservice transfer crap to go along with it. As a matter of fact I was talking to a Hornet RAG instructor (Navy for RTU) that said the Navy is not producing enough jet pilots. Don't give up until you talk to the right people. Good luck.

 

[g2s]

...Don't give up until you talk to the right people. Good luck.

Who are the right people to talk to? I'm not familiar with the Navy personnel/recruiting system.

 

[HeyJoe]

There are Guard Units that are losing their airplanes, but BRAC didn't realign anyone to UAVs in the Guard.

BRAC is Base Realignment and Closure and has no say in what units operate, only what units are being realigned (as in shifting locations). The services are still the force providers and retain their role to "Organize, Train and Equip" forces for use by the Combatant Commanders (COCOM). BRAC folks just got in intercede where they might be located, but not what they operate.

 

[Swanee]

BRAC is Base Realignment and Closure and has no say in what units operate, only what units are being realigned (as in shifting locations). The services are still the force providers and retain their role to "Organize, Train and Equip" forces for use by the Combatant Commanders (COCOM). BRAC folks just got in intercede where they might be located, but not what they operate.

Right, they moved a lot of airplanes around and realigned a lot of units to new airplanes. The AF and the Guard Bureau still can come in and transition units to different airplanes, but it was the Brac commissions findings and suggestions that moved Ft Smith from Vipers to Hogs, took the F-15s from Otis and put them at Barnes, Transitioned billings from Vipers to F-15s, etc... Part of Brac's job was consolidate the fleets and that's what they did.

 

[HeyJoe]

Part of Brac's job was consolidate the fleets and that's what they did.

It may seem that way from outside, but they aren't supposed to consolidate "the fleets" (that term is awkward and not a USAF one), they had mandate to eliminate excess infrastructure without Congressional interference. What the service (and Guard Bureau) operates was not under their purview, only where it operates. However, a consequence of reducing bases does consolidate aircraft by type/model/series (the Navy has always done that since advent of Master Jet Bases).

Having aircraft spread across CONUS was never that efficient, but it was a politically smart move in the past as it ensured Congressional "protection" especially for the Guard units. That protection is typically so strong that BRAC was needed to keep local Congressional interests out of the process.

 

[wilsonator]

g2s, unfortunately I can't tell you exactly who to talk to and I probably should have worded my response a little better. What I was trying to say is don't give up until you find the right people. The average recruiter on the street may not have the answers and could tell you some bs to get you out of his hair. When I was applying, the aviation board was out of Jacksonville, FL. You might try talking to someone there in Navy recruiting. It would obviously be nice if you new an Admiral or a CAG that could get some of his people to do the leg work. My guess is your situation is pretty unique and may take some fishing to find the answers. Good luck and don't take no for an answer, if the Navy is underproducing jet guys then you're just what we need.

 

[Swanee]

It may seem that way from outside, but they aren't supposed to consolidate "the fleets" (that term is awkward and not a USAF one), they had mandate to eliminate excess infrastructure without Congressional interference. What the service (and Guard Bureau) operates was not under their purview, only where it operates. However, a consequence of reducing bases does consolidate aircraft by type/model/series (the Navy has always done that since advent of Master Jet Bases).

Having aircraft spread across CONUS was never that efficient, but it was a politically smart move in the past as it ensured Congressional "protection" especially for the Guard units. That protection is typically so strong that BRAC was needed to keep local Congressional interests out of the process.

I can see what you're saying. I went back and read through their report and findings. The way they had written it makes one think that they are making the decisions. After reading through it again, I can see that they are really just making suggestions and recommendations based on what they were told to do. Breaking through political bonds is tough, but it made no sense to have 2 A-10 units less than 15 miles apart from each other.

Fleet was awkward to use in an AF sense, but what do you call a group of airplanes or cars? I guess the term fleet can be used loosely.

I'm done with my threadjack now.