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AFROTC contract problem

Tex232

New Member
Hi Everyone,

I've been doing a fair amount of reading on this site but haven't posted yet. I hope I can get some of your thoughts on my situation.

I'm a 22-year old Air Force ROTC cadet in my fifth and final year of my civil engineering major in college. For the duration of my sophomore, junior, and senior year, I was on an ROTC scholarship that covered most of my tuition and books. I hold my private pilot's license with just over a hundred hours. This past spring, I was selected to attend undergraduate pilot training when I graduated/commissioned. My entire life, my dream has been to fly for any of the military services, fixed wing or helos, and I was very happy when I learned the AF would give me this chance. To my dismay, when I went TDY to Wright Patterson AFB for my flight physical, I was found medically disqualified for a certain eye virus that the doctors refused to grant a waiver for. I returned home and visited several civilian ophthalmologists (one of whom is also USAF reserve flight surgeon) on my own to get a second opinion. The reservist doctor was able to clear my condition up with a run of steroid drops, and both doctors wrote letters for me to send to wright pat, recommending that in their personal medical opinions, I didn't present a flight risk and should be found medically qualified to fly. Ultimately, I was able to get my ROTC cadre to send these letters to wright pat, but the doctors at wright pat refused to give me a second look, and continue to refuse to do so to this day. My commander suggested that I go in as a non-flyer, and then try to get a second medical exam after a few years in the AF (which would require me to reapply to and be accepted for pilot training to get the exam). Furthermore, I wrote personal letters to both the president and my state representative, only to receive no reply.

In the meantime to look at my options, I contacted a USN recruiter to look into flying for the Navy. Based on taking a preliminary look at my records (GPA, leadership exp, etc.), he thought I may be a competitive candidate for OCS and the flight program. At that time, he didn't ask about any previous military experience, and I didn't mention any.

A few weeks ago, I sat down with my commander and told him that I had been considering asking for a release from my contract (on the condition that I would pay my scholarship money back). He looked into cross commissioning for me, but not surprisingly the AF said they were undermanned and wouldn't let me cross over. I also asked him to find out what my chances of having to enlist vs paying back the scholarship would be if I asked to be disenrolled. He did, and about a week ago, HQ came back claiming that I would be likely be called to active duty as an EM if I was to disenroll. They said that this was the "default" for contracted cadets. I found that hard to believe due to the fact that I personally know more than a few cadets from my ROTC detachment who voluntarily disenrolled couple of years ago, and were not required to enlist.

After learning this, I called my Navy recruiter (who was looking forward to me taking the ASTB), and explained the situation. He completely understood why I did not immediately make it known that I was in AFROTC, and told me that he would have liked to have had me apply for OCS.

At this point, I feel as though I have no other choice but to accept a commission with the Air Force. I don't wish to commission, but I definitely do not want to be forced to enlist. My class has been given our assignments, and assuming nothing changes, I will have to attend the air force's space officer course at Vandenberg if I am to be commissioned. It may sound like a pretty neat job to some people, but sitting in a windowless building at a computer desk watching for space debris or incoming missiles just isn't me, no matter how many times people say I "might like it". Yea, I get the whole "officer first" thing, but for me its always pretty much been wings or bust. To be honest, I'm not sure I can spend four years going to work with a fake smile on my face, pretending to like my job, just so I can get good OPR's.

I think one of my only options remaining is to do my time in the AF and then ask for an interservice transfer to either the Navy or one of the other services to fly. But from what I have found through this site and other sources, interservice transfers can be anywhere from relatively simple to obtain to extremely difficult to obtain, usually being the latter. For all I know it could never happen. In short, I'm not exactly thrilled with having to roll the dice on a lateral transfer when I think it would be in the best interest of the AF to just let me go and pay them back. I've also been thinking about contacting different Navy ROTC detachments to see if any of them have a senior level cadet who might be willing to do a 1 for 1 swap with me. Its the longest of longshots and I'm pretty sure has never been done before, but at this point I'm willing to try anything.

I can tell that my commander isn't especially eager to let me go, and he's less than willing to fully look into other options for me. As of now, one of my few mentors throughout this entire ordeal has been my parents, mainly my dad who spent over 15 years flying for the Army and Coast Guard. He was one of the first people to remind me about the possibility of Naval or even Army aviation.

Looking back on my whole situation, I think I made a big mistake contracting with the Air Force, not to mention taking a scholarship. In hindsight, I think I would have been happier with the Navy even if I wasn't flying. Living in NV, I've always enjoyed visiting the Naval Air Stations and ports in CA. The atmosphere always seemed to be a little more exciting than that of the Air Force.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Hindsight is 20/20, however in your situation I would have taken the scholarship and contracted with the AF.

The reality is there are any number of things that can NPQ you from a flight contract and there's nothing saying that NAMI wouldn't find something to NPQ you for after a Navy flight physical as well. It's very a common occurance.

I'm not trying to tell you to suck it up but take a step back and look at the opportunity you have in front of you. If you've got a "pilot or bust" mentality, you won't be any happier in a non flying job in the Navy, I promise you that. Besides, you're already a pilot. You can continue to work on your growth as a professional pilot on the civilian side of the house. This is much more easily accomplished bankrolling it as an officer. There's no reason you can't get your Commerical, instrument, multi and CFI/I over the next 4 years...

These days, civilian pilot background with 1000hrs and a security clearance (which you can keep by staying reserve/guard) start to open a lot of doors in the non DoD government civilian, paramilitary, DoD contracting and DoD government civilian flying world so that would be an option for you. If the opportunity is ever available for you on the Air Force side of the house, volunteer to deploy as a TSO... it'd be a good way for you to get a glimpse into some of that world.

If you decide you want to go to the airlines, there's a 50/50 shot that you'd be at a legacy quicker if you went through a Wholly Owned American Airlines regional as a purebred civilian than you would after 10+ years winging contract and not flying for your last tour (which is very common these days as well).

I doubt you've realized this right now but your in a pretty good position to use military opportunities to help further your professional career as a pilot even after getting NPQ'd from UPT. I know plenty of former ground guys and non-pilot fliers who ended up flying either grey/white airplanes or airliners, or both, as a pilot because they were able to leverage their military experience into something tangible that gave them a clearance and a network of contacts who got them leads and good stories for interviews.

Food for thought.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
It is crappy that the USAF has DQ'd you from pilot training, just like zippy said the same thing could happen in the USN and here is one of the reasons why, there are many things that when it comes to the military and medical are "current or history of" so even though it is cleared up you had it so you have a "history of", it is not uncommon for even physicians in the service to not fully understand this unless they are the ones calling the shots, I would venture to say this could have happened with your eye virus.

I do know a few AF ROTC cadets that voluntary disenrolled and did not have to go enlisted, but they were told up front they would not have to, and their disenrollment paperwork specifically said that, but that was several years ago when they were trying to reduce the number of people in AF ROTC.

Lateral transfer is probably not a realistic option as well, several military pilots have tried and not been successful, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

You probably don't want to hear this but your best option is to stick with the USAF and try to fly the way zippy suggested.
 

Tex232

New Member
It is crappy that the USAF has DQ'd you from pilot training, just like zippy said the same thing could happen in the USN and here is one of the reasons why, there are many things that when it comes to the military and medical are "current or history of" so even though it is cleared up you had it so you have a "history of", it is not uncommon for even physicians in the service to not fully understand this unless they are the ones calling the shots, I would venture to say this could have happened with your eye virus.

I do know a few AF ROTC cadets that voluntary disenrolled and did not have to go enlisted, but they were told up front they would not have to, and their disenrollment paperwork specifically said that, but that was several years ago when they were trying to reduce the number of people in AF ROTC.

Lateral transfer is probably not a realistic option as well, several military pilots have tried and not been successful, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

You probably don't want to hear this but your best option is to stick with the USAF and try to fly the way zippy suggested.

What I still don't understand is how the Air Force doctors substantiated the disqualification. What they said I have isn't even listed in the official Air Force medical waiver guide as a disqualifying condition, I looked at the regs personally. Same thing as far as the Navy waiver guide. So basically its just one man's opinion vs another that I should or should not fly. That's why I was fighting so hard for a reversal. When I was there, they were giving waivers to guys for everything under the sun, from holes in the retina to degenerative eye conditions.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
What I still don't understand is how the Air Force doctors substantiated the disqualification. What they said I have isn't even listed in the official Air Force medical waiver guide as a disqualifying condition, I looked at the regs personally. Same thing as far as the Navy waiver guide. So basically its just one man's opinion vs another that I should or should not fly. That's why I was fighting so hard for a reversal. When I was there, they were giving waivers to guys for everything under the sun, from holes in the retina to degenerative eye conditions.

Not everything is in the book, what I have found is sometimes I couldn't find something, but then when I talked to N3M it was covered by another section, and sometimes they have to look at any potential long term effects, and just make a call, I can tell you I have had people with retina conditions and none of the new accession candidates were ever granted a waiver, sometimes the USN will grant a waiver if a person developed the condition as an officer.

Maybe your best bet is to commission and then try and fight it once you are commissioned, it may go nowhere but at least you may have a chance.
 

Bravo Kilo

Active Member
He did, and about a week ago, HQ came back claiming that I would be likely be called to active duty as an EM if I was to disenroll. They said that this was the "default" for contracted cadets. I found that hard to believe due to the fact that I personally know more than a few cadets from my ROTC detachment who voluntarily disenrolled couple of years ago, and were not required to enlist.
It does happen, I have seen it. However, it depends on the nature of your separation. I was released with no prejudice because I had some serious issues going on and it was best for my academics. However, I had a friend who was on my commander's radar and he was given 2 years Active Duty Service Commitment. Under your circumstances, I'm not sure what they would give, but just because there is a demand for officers, does not mean there is also a demand for enlisted, especially when only certain jobs can be filled with a 2 year enlistment. So paying back money could be more preferable to them.

Now when I say they give you a 2 year ADSC, it really is just that. It's not service specific. They will give you the option of a minimum of 2 years, or you can opt for 4 and open up your selection of jobs, or you can do OCS/OTS. This may sound anecdotal, but my friend has this same 2 years and he's going OTS instead of enlisted I believe. The recruiters here may know better how something like that is handled.

To be honest, I'm not sure I can spend four years going to work with a fake smile on my face, pretending to like my job, just so I can get good OPR's.
1. This is a terrible attitude. Be happy you've gotten as far as you have and that you will be in the officer corps of the greatest military

2. Still a good option. I have another friend who did exactly this and is waiting to hear back board results first. He didn't wait a full 4 years to apply for their pilot board. He is much older than you too. You're only 22. You have plenty of time.
 
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