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AF vs. Marines

Well, the navy wont talk to be at all about the pilot slot. I have talked with three recruiters and as soon as they find out that my degree is in Chemical Eng. they wont talk to me about aviation anymore. If you guys know of a recruiter that will talk to me, let me know. It has recently come to my attention that is getting really hard to get a Navy aviator slot as a civilian. If you guys no something I don't on that front, let me know. The Army just doen't appeal to me. I am proceeding with my Marine packet. I also like the location of the Marine bases alot more than the AF bases. Most of the AF bases seem to be in places I'd rather not live.
 
having been an Air Force brat growing up, and now a Marine....it goes back to what you are looking for....but not for one second would I ever want to be in the Air Force. The standards just aren't there, and being a civilian in uniform does nothing for me. Quality of life will be better, but the quality of the individuals would leave an awful lot to be desired. Both of my folks were career Air Force and they are thoroughly impressed the Marines in every aspect as both my brother and I are both serving in the Corps.
 
You'll have to decide for yourself. Every single branch has its goods and the bads, hell some even have their uglies. I love everything about the Air Force. Besides, since this is mostly a Navy/Marines forum; the opinions might be a bit biased. Anyway, If you want to fly, you'll be lucky flying for any of the services.
 
I don't understand why the "recruiter won't talk to you anymore." Is it because he wants you to go Nuke? Or is it he just doesn't think there are any slots? I'm confused what the Chem Eng. degree has to do with it. If it's a nuke thing, and you're dealing w/ an actual officer, then I would politefully and tactfully tell him to pack sand, if that's not what you're interested in. It kind of sounds like you may be dealing w/ one of the petty officers, in which case you need to ask politely and tactfully to speak w/ the officer that's in charge of that office, since you're not getting anywere. My detachment LCPO used to be a recruiter, and he always joked that the holy grail of recruiting was a black female nuke officer candidate. This isn't meant as a racist comment, but more as it's so rare that the recruiter's quota is met across the board.

You've said you're persuing your Marine package. Good on you and keep it up. But if you're also interested in the Navy, I wouldn't let someone at a recruiter tell you (or apparently not tell you) that you can't do it.
 
As soon as I tell them that I'm a chemE all they will talk about is the nuke program. I was dealing with an Lt and I have dealt with two enlisted personal. The Lt. said that he wouldn't board me as an aviator cause I was more valuable as an engineer. Then he proceeded to tell me how hard it was to get an aviator slot and that the Navy was cutting back on aviators. I felt like I was getting a load of B.S. I don't know how "valuable" a nuke officer is, but I can assure him I wont be to valuable if that's not what I want to do, but he didn't seem to understand that. The aviation thing has been in my blood for as long as I can remember, and it was cemented in the first time I pulled back on that yoke during my PPL training.

I have another question for you fellas. How is the fleet life of the Marine aviators compared to that of the Navy?
 
Baalzebub said:
I have another question for you fellas. How is the fleet life of the Marine aviators compared to that of the Navy?
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Others can correct me if they wish but unlike the Navy, Marine aviators are leaders of Marines first and aviators second. This means that while they are primarily concerned with flying most of there time not in the cockpit are occupied by collateral billets where they will be in charge of a shop or specific area. In other words the time requirements are much higher.
 
jamnww said:
Others can correct me if they wish but unlike the Navy, Marine aviators are leaders of Marines first and aviators second. This means that while they are primarily concerned with flying most of there time not in the cockpit are occupied by collateral billets where they will be in charge of a shop or specific area. In other words the time requirements are much higher.
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Right, so USN pilots do nothing but fly and then get to go home. Negative. We also hold ground billets and collateral duties. My Marine buddies that are in squadrons don't work any more than I do. If you're going to try to play the "Marine first" card at least get your facts straight.

Consider yourself corrected.
 
zab1001 said:
Right, so USN pilots do nothing but fly and then get to go home. Negative. We also hold ground billets and collateral duties. My Marine buddies that are in squadrons don't work any more than I do. If you're going to try to play the "Marine first" card at least get your facts straight.

Consider yourself corrected.
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Ok, never said the Navy aviators don't do anything other than fly, I understand they have billets as well. My understanding, based on many discussions both with current / past Marine and Navy aviators as well as discussion on AW have almost all indicated that the work outside of the cockpit for Marines is higher...

If you think about it straight up the Navy has more officers per enlisted personnel so it makes sense, and like I said that is how it has been explained to me by many others both on AW and in person. Never intended to imply that Navy guys are bags of a$$. Either way, just different view points, nothing to get defensive about...
 
The real question, is there a difference in officer:enlisted ratio in a Marine aviation unit versus a Navy aviation unit? On the boat, it seemed that they were about the same. And I'm pretty sure every squadron has just about the same billets.
 
jamnww said:
I understand they have billets as well. My understanding, based on many discussions both with current / past Marine and Navy aviators as well as discussion on AW have almost all indicated that the work outside of the cockpit for Marines is higher...
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Doing what? Any Marine BTDTs who have any thoughts on this?

jamnww said:
If you think about it straight up the Navy has more officers per enlisted personnel so it makes sense, and like I said that is how it has been explained to me by many others both on AW and in person. Never intended to imply that Navy guys are bags of a$$. Either way, just different view points, nothing to get defensive about...
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Nothing defensive about debunking bad gouge.

According to this logic based on fewer officers per enlisted, does this mean non-flying aviators are doing extra work to make up for the lack of troops? So these guys are turning wrenches, chasing trons, and loading bombs? No way. Maybe the Admin O has less support in his shop, but there's really only so much an officer can do in a squadron when he isn't flying or overseeing his shop. Any squadron.

If Skidkid, one of the Phrogs, or another winged, Marine Fleet aviator, with actual experience, cares to elaborate, I'll gladly concede.
 
You're always going to get the guys who hide up in an Ops/Training office and don't really provide much to the squadron, regardless of service. Sure, they fly their events and have their collateral duty such as the Officer Geedunk Relief for Voting Officers job...or some such iteration. But then you're going to have the guys who actually contribute, whether it's as AssOps, a maintenance division officer, or some other job that's required for the squadron to actually function day to day.

On the Navy side, it can depend on what community you're in as to how involved the O's are. And I think that's what Jammnw was referencing, just not correctly. On the helo side, I had one of my chiefs tell me that generally LAMPS officers are more visible to the maintainers than they were in HS. Mostly because the pool of people is so much smaller while on det (4-6 vice 10-15+). I would imagine the COD community is like that as well, since they det a lot, too.

But to say the Marines are more hands on w/ their troops just isn't fair to the Navy guys. And besides, whichever community/service you're in, you can be as hands on as you choose.

As for the LT giving you the business, that's a bummer. I don't agree w/ it, but I have a feeling he's got his reasons, especially when it's 15 days away from the end of the FY. If he doesn't want to play ball in October, I'd look at trying to talk to someone out of your district, should you want to persue the Navy side.
 
This thread is kind of dumb, it started dumb then slowly got less dumb but now we are getting back to dumb.
Many of the roles and directives are identical between Navy and Marine squadrons. The only real difference is in the missions. Blue and Green side are putting in long hours keeping aging aircraft in the air as well as leading and mentoring the junior enlisted personnel placed in their charge. That is prett much teh bottom line. I realize all those who havent been there yet are prone to speculation but there it is.
 
Concur with skidkid... When it comes right down to it, the only difference between Navy and Marine Corps are missions. They may have a few non-pilot officers more in the squadron than we do (at last count, my squadron had 2 that weren't pilots, including our WO AVIO), but we all have "collateral duties." Which, really shouldn't be viewed as collateral duties because I don't know about Navy fitreps, but most of the blocks on the USMC ones point towards your ground job vice flying.

It's tough to say that "x number of officers vs x number of enlisted" is a realistic picture of the leadership you will encounter in the wing. The Navy/Air Force doesn't have platoons, companys, battalions, etc... That tends to skew the numbers in the Marine's favor. I would argue in the wing, everything is about the same.
 
Phrog & Skid:

You both said what I was trying to say, but much better. As for ground officers in the Navy, it really depends on the community. The fighter squadrons have a few more than us. I'm not sure about HS. The HSC(HC) guys will det w/ dedicated Maint. Off/MMCOs, from what I hear.
 
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