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Academy Instructor for 1st Shore Tour

setracer

New Member
None
I'm a P-8 FO and just starting to consider shore tour options. I went to the Naval Academy, already have my Master's, and would love to get back there to teach. I'm just not sure what color path that'd put me on and haven't found anybody with real solid gouge. I'm also very interested in eventually doing JPMP or PMP later on in life.

I know the next step is to give my detailer a call but I thought I'd ask around here first. Anybody know how an Academy academic instructor tour looks for O-4 promotion/DH screening?
 

webmaster

The Grass is Greener!
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
After gathering your info. Go sit down and talk with your XO about where you want to go to next. They will be able to help you make that happen.
 

picklesuit

Dirty Hinge
pilot
Contributor
As has been covered extensively here, it's not great for your Navy career.

There are always outliers, but normally production is valued most.
 

robav8r

Future performance not guaranteed . . .
None
Contributor
The fact that you already have a Masters will play well. However, if this is the path you choose, I would start working a challenging, disassociated tour on a CVN soon after you start your shore tour. Assuming of course, you desire to remain competitive for DH.
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
If you want to be a skipper, yes, a USNA tour is stepping off the Golden Path. People have done it and stayed competitive, but when following tours are described as "get-well," that pretty much tells the story.

However, if your idea of a successful career is doing a challenging and rewarding job, and getting promoted and paid in the meantime, and going for 20+, then getting on the Academy JPMP/PMP track is not a bad deal. Go back to Naptown as a LT and conceivably never leave again until you hit retirement as an O-6. Get a second master's or doctorate in the bargain. Of course, there are a lot of dudes vying for spots as JPMPs.

I would not recommend going for a Dant's staff job, or sailing or leadership instructor, or something like that. Takes you off the path but doesn't really buy you anything for a career Outside, either.

If it's advice you want - don't talk to the detailer or your front office about this until you've got your good paper. JPMP, which is what it sounds like you're interested in, is not a billet you get detailed to. You apply for it and are selected by a board. A smiley-face final competitive fitrep will help a lot. And if your front office is like every other one I've ever heard of, once you tell them you're going or want to go to non-production shore job, you just made their "who gets the MP" decision process a lot easier. It's not vindictive...it's just thinking why should they waste 'competitive' paper on someone who's not competing? And if you change your mind about USNA or aren't picked up, you've blown the bridge before you crossed it.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Last I heard I was told JPMP was for post DH applicants (I had a boss who applied). Unless this has changed you'll need to make O-4 for this program to be an option for you. Make sure you research the most upto date info in that program.

Based on the boards in recent years, USNA shore tour as an aviator = career death. Everyone I know whose done it ended up being FOSx2.

If you want to take those orders, be prepared for a low high water fitrep and mediocre boat orders because your message is unfortunately "I just want to take it easy until I get out."

Things could always change but tread carefully if you think going off path early in your career will still keep you competitive for promotion. While things may have been different in the past recent O-4 boards (last 3 years) have shown the two to be relatively incompatible.
 

CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
If you want to be a skipper, yes, a USNA tour is stepping off the Golden Path. People have done it and stayed competitive, but when following tours are described as "get-well," that pretty much tells the story.

However, if your idea of a successful career is doing a challenging and rewarding job, and getting promoted and paid in the meantime, and going for 20+, then getting on the Academy JPMP/PMP track is not a bad deal. Go back to Naptown as a LT and conceivably never leave again until you hit retirement as an O-6. Get a second master's or doctorate in the bargain. Of course, there are a lot of dudes vying for spots as JPMPs.

I would not recommend going for a Dant's staff job, or sailing or leadership instructor, or something like that. Takes you off the path but doesn't really buy you anything for a career Outside, either.

If it's advice you want - don't talk to the detailer or your front office about this until you've got your good paper. JPMP, which is what it sounds like you're interested in, is not a billet you get detailed to. You apply for it and are selected by a board. A smiley-face final competitive fitrep will help a lot. And if your front office is like every other one I've ever heard of, once you tell them you're going or want to go to non-production shore job, you just made their "who gets the MP" decision process a lot easier. It's not vindictive...it's just thinking why should they waste 'competitive' paper on someone who's not competing? And if you change your mind about USNA or aren't picked up, you've blown the bridge before you crossed it.
That's assuming he has that luxury. I detached my first sea tour on February 1st with my high water FITREP the day before. Not telling my front office what I wanted wasn't exactly an option.
 

azguy

Well-Known Member
None
This is an interesting concept to me, since we SWOs don't have these same "tiers of awesomeness" in our shore duty jobs. We do it a slightly different way... As a SWO if you express interest in a lat-xfer or resigning, you can (usually) count on becoming FITREP fodder.

Question: Are these practices BS? Should the command's best officer be ranked #1 EP, second best officer ranked #2 EP, regardless of career intentions? Or are FITREPs a "message to the board," meaning they should cater to those staying on the golden path?
 

azguy

Well-Known Member
None
I think it's a legitimate question, especially given that it's LT FITREP season across the Navy.

If you feel this is a rehash not worth your time, feel free to not participate, Brett.
 

picklesuit

Dirty Hinge
pilot
Contributor
AZguy,
I don't think Brett was trying to be an asshole. We seriously destroyed this issue for the last four February LT Fitrep cycles. I can paraphrase if you want: FITREP is a message to the board communicating the most qualified to be a future CO. In evaluating a wardroom full of talent, desire comes into that evaluation. Two guys, otherwise equal, will be stratified by their desire to stay in longer and continue to contribute to development of subordinates.

The dead horse doesn't need to be strapped to the grating again.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
AZguy,
I don't think Brett was trying to be an asshole.
Truth, but I was trying to be a good moderator.

picklesuit said:
The dead horse doesn't need to be strapped to the grating again.
Also true. In AZguy's defense, he probably didn't see the discussion in the PNA forum. It's just not worth reopening all those old wounds again, buddy.
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Last I heard I was told JPMP was for post DH applicants (I had a boss who applied). Unless this has changed you'll need to make O-4 for this program to be an option for you. Make sure you research the most upto date info in that program.
You are correct; I had the program names mixed up.

Graduate Education & Teaching (GE&T) is the program for LTs.

USNA Officer Faculty Opportunities
 

MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
NROTC vs USNA might be apples to oranges, but while in NROTC, I never saw an aviation LT go anywhere but out of the Navy. I'm not going to talk in community absolutes, but in VFA, if you aren't flying in your JO shore tour, you are done, barring some weird medical/family situation, and in many cases even then. Even flying, but not flying grey Hornets/Rhinos, tends to produce an uphill career battle. Slightly better odds for T-45 IP's than the other cats and dogs, but that foot back in the door seems to generally be through a CAG paddles tour…...which are numbered in the amount of CAG's x2 so not exactly enough to go around when you factor in all the eligible RAG IP's/RAG paddles that are also vying for those jobs. Long story short, and a lot of generalities that I'm sure anyone can pick apart based on someone they know, you want to stay in your fleet aircraft if at all possible if your goal is Skipper. I know VFA-195 had a former F-15 exchange (while a JO) skipper a while back, which could obviously be the counterpoint, but I don't think the statistics really back up that sort of thing being a predictable career track. If you have the options and desire for a CO/XO tour, I'd probably not try and go this route personally.
 

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
NROTC vs USNA might be apples to oranges, but while in NROTC, I never saw an aviation LT go anywhere but out of the Navy. I'm not going to talk in community absolutes, but in VFA, if you aren't flying in your JO shore tour, you are done, barring some weird medical/family situation, and in many cases even then. Even flying, but not flying grey Hornets/Rhinos, tends to produce an uphill career battle. Slightly better odds for T-45 IP's than the other cats and dogs, but that foot back in the door seems to generally be through a CAG paddles tour…...which are numbered in the amount of CAG's x2 so not exactly enough to go around when you factor in all the eligible RAG IP's/RAG paddles that are also vying for those jobs. Long story short, and a lot of generalities that I'm sure anyone can pick apart based on someone they know, you want to stay in your fleet aircraft if at all possible if your goal is Skipper. I know VFA-195 had a former F-15 exchange (while a JO) skipper a while back, which could obviously be the counterpoint, but I don't think the statistics really back up that sort of thing being a predictable career track. If you have the options and desire for a CO/XO tour, I'd probably not try and go this route personally.
I've seen two NROTC aviation LTs make it past their NROTC tour. One LAT transferred to HR and the other FOS'd, but because he was prior they let him serve one more tour (in recruiting) until he had his 20 and retire.

In recruiting, which is just about the same career-wise for Aviators, I have seen more Pilot get selected for O-4 and is currently on her sea tour.
 
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