757 Engine Out

[scoober78]

Interesting video of a Thomson 757. Eats a bird just prior to rotation...The video runs long but the coms are interesting throughout. Seems like it was handled extremely well.

http://www.break.com/index/757-engine-vs-tiny-bird.html

Couple questions...

In a situation like that, the airplane is obviously going to want to land as soon as practicable...but is likely well over weight. What are your considerations? Increased approach speed I would think, with as soft a TD as possible...Increased stopping distance. Assuming its well executed, would it be an over max inspection or???

 

[Ace_Austin]

Kinda cool to see the turbine surging like that as it comes apart.

 

[mules83]

The 757 can dump fuel to get under its max landing weight.

 

[scoober78]

The 757 can dump fuel to get under its max landing weight.

Yeah...I did I mention that I'm in ground school for the C-12. Oops. So likely spend some time dumping...then land...

 

[plc67]

Had to shut an egine down in a 767 200 a couple of years ago about 40 miles outside of Oakland. We were well above landing weight and the 200 series can't dump fuel(at least the 200 series we have) but we landed overweight and the inspection required on the gear is minimal. Our mechanics told me it was in the range of 5 minutes. If you touchdown much more than 300 fpm the inspection gets more complicated.
Single engine we land at flaps 20 rather than flaps 30 and the landing wasn't high pucker factor at all, the 767 has plenty of power and the aircraft handled very nicely.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Interesting video....a little off topic, but it reminds me of one night a couple summers ago on the Kitty Hawk (I was observing up in Pri-Fly) a Hornet in tension on the waist cat started shooting fireballs that looked just like that out of the strbrd exhaust. Air Boss said he had never seen anything like it before....thought it was a compressor stall. Given the nature of the mishap in the video, could what I saw have been because of FOD as well?

 

[millerjd]

Kinda cool to see the turbine surging like that as it comes apart.

Being at critical point in takeoff, I don't think the pilot's found that too cool..

The 757 can dump fuel to get under its max landing weight.

757 does not have a fuel dumping option because it's maximum takeoff weight is close enough to it's maximum landing weight.

 

[scoober78]

Being at critical point in takeoff, I don't think the pilot's found that too cool...

No kidding. That bird clearly had some multi time in his training. Hit the engine exactly at point of rotation...

I would assume that a twin turbofan has no critical engine? Certainly not for the same reason that a turboprop does...

 

[BigIron]

From another angle with no ATC commentary.

 

[Ace_Austin]

I certainly wouldn't want an engine on a bird I was on to do that...thankfully the pilot had it all in one sock and managed to get her up and back around in one peice.

 

[Beans]

No kidding. That bird clearly had some multi time in his training. Hit the engine exactly at point of rotation...

I would assume that a twin turbofan has no critical engine? Certainly not for the same reason that a turboprop does...

There shouldn't be much of any p-factor in a TF because a the inlet is pretty long (about equal to the fan diameter) - so the upward- and downward-traveling sides of the fan see a fairly similar flow. That is, until a bird flies in there.

thought it was a compressor stall. Given the nature of the mishap in the video, could what I saw have been because of FOD as well?

What you saw and what was in that video were definitely compressor surge cycles. Most likely the one you saw was from FOD. With all the control electronics on engines, I would think the only way a compressor could surge would be because it wears out or because something damages it.

 

[Gatordev]

What you saw and what was in that video were definitely compressor surge cycles. Most likely the one you saw was from FOD. With all the control electronics on engines, I would think the only way a compressor could surge would be because it wears out or because something damages it.

Or because one of those electronic (or mechanical) widgets fails, in which case compressor (and/or total engine) surging is pretty normal.

 

[MIDNJAC]

That makes sense, thanks. So is that just the computer trying to compensate for some compression or flow problem w/n the engine (in terms of fuel delivery)? Or is it the result of shockwaves blowing through the hot section? Just curious

 

[nittany03]

That makes sense, thanks. So is that just the computer trying to compensate for some compression or flow problem w/n the engine (in terms of fuel delivery)? Or is it the result of shockwaves blowing through the hot section? Just curious

My semi-kind-of-not-really-educated guess would be that the engine fuel control lags in compensating for the ever-changing airflow through the engine which is caused by the bird FODding the blades. Thus, too much fuel at a given moment causes a huge flame out the back, then the engine dials back and it goes away. Then another slug of air comes and the engine coughs up more fuel. Wash, rinse, repeat leading to the proverbial chugs, bangs, and stalls. You wouldn't get shockwaves with subsonic flow.

 

[Single Seat]

Being at critical point in takeoff, I don't think the pilot's found that too cool..




757 does not have a fuel dumping option because it's maximum takeoff weight is close enough to it's maximum landing weight.

V1 cuts in transport category aircraft are not a big deal. Certification demands that it can climb out, meeting certain wickets, at MGTOW. Climb profiles are designed with this in mind.