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NEWS 737MAX

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Preliminary report shows the Pilots did follow Boeing's procedure but were still unable to recover.

This article discusses how, due to "excessive manual trim forces," it is possible for the 737 Max to be unrecoverable after disabling electric trim at normal airspeeds.

What a shame that everyone so quickly jumped to blaming the pilots because of the country and airline involved...

I am a little wary of putting a lot of stock in the initial results, this investigation has become very political to the point where the Ethiopians didn't give the 'black boxes' to the NTSB or Brits to examine but the French because they didn't trust the NTSB, notwithstanding the fact the NTSB is the best in the world at what they do. I would not put it past a national investigatory authority to try and portray their own countrymen favorably as it has happened before, like Tenerife.

So...

Why not wait for the technical investigation to end before using your jump-to-conclusions mat?
 

lowflier03

So no $hit there I was
pilot
Why not wait for the technical investigation to end before using your jump-to-conclusions mat?
I think the final report will be very interesting and I am not saying what did or did not happen. I was just trying to point out that between this report and other testing, it is possible that the pilots did everything right/per procedure and could still be in an unwinnable position. Its not like the FAA has had to step in and force corrections on aircraft manufacturers before.

There has been a not insignificant amount of disparaging talk towards pilots in other countries/airlines (both on this site and across the internet).
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
I think the final report will be very interesting and I am not saying what did or did not happen. I was just trying to point out that between this report and other testing, it is possible that the pilots did everything right/per procedure and could still be in an unwinnable position. Its not like the FAA has had to step in and force corrections on aircraft manufacturers before.

There has been a not insignificant amount of disparaging talk towards pilots in other countries/airlines (both on this site and across the internet).
I also don’t know exactly how it went, and I know Ethiopian has a pretty good reputation. I also know that having a 200 hour FO in that plane didn’t help.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Preliminary report shows the Pilots did follow Boeing's procedure but were still unable to recover.

This article discusses how, due to "excessive manual trim forces," it is possible for the 737 Max to be unrecoverable after disabling electric trim at normal airspeeds.

What a shame that everyone so quickly jumped to blaming the pilots because of the country and airline involved...
The initial report shows the pilots initially followed Boeing's procedure in that they hit the trim cut off switch.. But then they failed to reduce power and airspeed. They kept the power at takeoff and got up to 365 KIAS and had overspeed warnings going off. Max thrust makes the nose go up requiring more control pressure to lower the nose. Higher speed makes it harder to manually trim and adds to required yoke pressure. When they had a hard time pushing the nose over because of the airspeed and power, they REENGAGED the trim switch causing the last unrecoverable nose over. If they had reduced power and airspeed, they would have required significantly less yoke pressure to control the nose attitude and would have had a much easier time manually trimming. By failing to do this and reengaging the trim switch, they caused the last fatal nose over into the ground.

So yes, I believe that the pilots were from the country and airline involved played a significant part in this crash. I believe that pilots at U.S. airlines would have recovered the aircraft.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
The Best Analysis Of What Really Happened To The Boeing 737 Max From A Pilot & Software Engineer

Boeing screwed the pooch on this, IMHO. I wonder if the total cost of all of their cancelled orders, groundings, reputational damage, lawsuits, and settlements outweigh what it would have cost them to do this the right way.
MAX completions are at over 60 per month - Boeing leaned the hell out production production flow - they will do everything necessary to keep customers happy.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
A message from American Airlines
Our commitment to you and to our team members is to run the safest and most reliable operation.

Many of you have already booked your summer travel with American and are counting on us for your vacations, family reunions, trips to visit friends and adventures overseas. We want you to have confidence in your future travel plans with us.

To avoid last-minute changes and to accommodate customers on other flights with as much notice as possible before their travel date, we have made the decision to extend our cancellations for the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft through August 19, 2019, while we await recertification of the MAX.

While these changes impact only a small portion of our more than 7,000 departures each day this summer, we can plan more reliably for the peak travel season by adjusting our schedule now. Customers whose upcoming travel has been impacted as a result of the schedule change are being contacted by our teams.

We appreciate your patience and understanding with us as we continue to work with Boeing, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), Department of Transportation (DOT), National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and other regulatory authorities to determine our path forward.

Thank you for your continued confidence in American and in our 130,000 team members. From all of us at American Airlines, thank you for flying with us.

Bridget Blaise-Shamai

Bridget Blaise-Shamai
President, AAdvantage Loyalty Program
American Airlines
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
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