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USNA Curriculum

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
The only such case that I know is of the "Admiral" David Robinson, and I though the Navy let him go after two years because of his height. I otherwise though the minimum service commitment was 5 years after the academy, athlete or not?

Did you read the article?
 

TexasForever

Well-Known Member
pilot
When I was a junior MIDN, I was genuinely opposed to it and thought some of our athletes had gotten away with murder in Admissions and were real shitbags. Maybe they did back in the 2005 Admissions Department, who knows, I wasn't there. By the time I was graduating, having been an athlete (though not recruited) for 2 out of my first 4 years of the Academy, my mind was shifting more towards thinking "damn, those guys work really friggin hard. I could only do varsity sports 2 of the years because I needed more time to focus on school. They may not be getting A's, but I can't bench even within 100 pounds of 280 either, and I don't wake up before 5 almost every day for my first of 3 practices." Then I worked in admissions, and saw the line of thinking in Admissions was "if you're good enough academically, and you're good enough to be a top recruit for a D-1 school, you're doing something right and there's a value in having people around who may focus on physical fitness and teamwork than just academics," and agreed with it even more. Then I got to the fleet, and a lot of those supposed "shitbags" made some really great pilots and some fine officers, and our superiors could not have told you with much degree of accuracy who was a "shitbag" at the Academy and who was a "golden child."

If I were to go back as a Company Officer I would definitely have a lot more leniency towards the varsity athletes after seeing how awesome some of the "shitbags" are doing now. In fact I've been disappointed more by those who were "model" midshipmen and got to the fleet and just couldn't be team players, pansied out of everything, and demonstrated a surprising lack of creativity and basic leadership. I worked in admissions after graduating and was responsible for verifying that no standards were lowered for recruiting purposes. It may appear at times that the process works better for athletes but if you look at what they bring to the table and how much harder they work than the average NARP (Non-Athletic Regular Person, which I was) it all evens out.
 

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
If I were to go back as a Company Officer I would definitely have a lot more leniency towards the varsity athletes after seeing how awesome some of the "shitbags" are doing now. In fact I've been disappointed more by those who were "model" midshipmen and got to the fleet and just couldn't be team players, pansied out of everything, and demonstrated a surprising lack of creativity and basic leadership. I worked in admissions after graduating and was responsible for verifying that no standards were lowered for recruiting purposes. It may appear at times that the process works better for athletes but if you look at what they bring to the table and how much harder they work than the average NARP (Non-Athletic Regular Person, which I was) it all evens out.

With all that said, and with what I said, I do recall there being some serious issues over discipline that should have been handled as equally as any other Midshipman; but of course, that changes from Supe to Supe and Dant to Dant I suppose.
 

Meow

Member
pilot
They enforce the 65% STEM requirement by running numbers during pre-registration for majors plebe year. If too many mids pre-register for Tier III majors they send out a mass notification that the numbers are off and then contact the individuals who might be affected if enough people don't voluntarily switch to Tier II or I. At least, that's how they did it in the early 000s. My advisor emailed me and said, based off what courses I validated and my grades in plebe calc and chem, that I would need to pick a Tier I or II major (I wanted poli sci). Lucky for me, the mass email scared enough people to make it unnecessary for me to switch.

BTW - NROTC has the same requirement. 85% of scholarships go to Tier I or II majors freshmen year, and then the percentage loosens as people need to change majors along the way to a 65% STEM at graduation.

Hope this helps.
 

JWL

Member
Why this seemingly major emphasis on sports? Is there a mentality that sportsmanship makes one a better officer? I can certainly see why an officer (or anyone in the military) should be in tip top shape. But, there seems to be a focus on organized sports.

Also, do football players and other varsity athletes get any edge in choosing competitive designators like pilot or seal? Perhaps what it takes to be a successful SEAL can be sowed in a student who can do well on the playing field. I don't know. Inquiring minds would like to know.
 
They enforce the 65% STEM requirement by running numbers during pre-registration for majors plebe year. If too many mids pre-register for Tier III majors they send out a mass notification that the numbers are off and then contact the individuals who might be affected if enough people don't voluntarily switch to Tier II or I. At least, that's how they did it in the early 000s. My advisor emailed me and said, based off what courses I validated and my grades in plebe calc and chem, that I would need to pick a Tier I or II major (I wanted poli sci). Lucky for me, the mass email scared enough people to make it unnecessary for me to switch.

BTW - NROTC has the same requirement. 85% of scholarships go to Tier I or II majors freshmen year, and then the percentage loosens as people need to change majors along the way to a 65% STEM at graduation.

Hope this helps.
Yes, it helps. Thanks. Oddly, it seems that the liberal arts oriented students who happen to be good at math or science may get penalized for their aptitude by being forced to choose a major they don't want. Then again, if you're choosing a technically oriented school like USNA or a technically oriented branch like Navy, this shouldn't be a huge surprise.
 

RadicalDude

Social Justice Warlord
Why this seemingly major emphasis on sports? Is there a mentality that sportsmanship makes one a better officer? I can certainly see why an officer (or anyone in the military) should be in tip top shape. But, there seems to be a focus on organized sports.

Also, do football players and other varsity athletes get any edge in choosing competitive designators like pilot or seal? Perhaps what it takes to be a successful SEAL can be sowed in a student who can do well on the playing field. I don't know. Inquiring minds would like to know.

Anecdotal, but in my experience, people who have the capability to balance sports and school in high school & college tend to be better at time management, prioritizing, team-building, and communicating. I think the Navy recognizes the value this brings to an officer. Hell the term "team player" comes form sports. Being competitive never hurts in this business either.
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Why this seemingly major emphasis on sports? Is there a mentality that sportsmanship makes one a better officer? I can certainly see why an officer (or anyone in the military) should be in tip top shape. But, there seems to be a focus on organized sports.

Admissions looks for candidates who are physcially fit, have demonstrated leadership, and are academically sound. Being a successful athlete generally indicates some degree of aptitude in two of those three areas.

If you mean at the Academy, it's really more an emphasis on "get out and do something active as part of a team," which is sensible in a military school. If you wanted to go out for varsity whatever, great, but you had to do some kind of extra-curricular activity, whether it was football or sailing or band or intramurals or whatever.

Also, do football players and other varsity athletes get any edge in choosing competitive designators like pilot or seal? Perhaps what it takes to be a successful SEAL can be sowed in a student who can do well on the playing field. I don't know. Inquiring minds would like to know.

No. Your physical fitness grade does factor in to your order of merit, but that's only your PFA scores. No one gives a shit if you were varsity whatever when it comes to service assignment.

If anything, the varsity FB guys were often so banged-up by Firstie year that they couldn't commission in URL, much less NSW or aviation. At least amongst guys who got SEAL billets out of the Academy...basically they want high grades and super fit. I knew a guy in my class who really, really wanted to be a SEAL and was a PT animal - would swim to the Sea Bouy and back for giggles on Saturday mornings - but his grades weren't hot at all. It was made clear to him that NSW wasn't in the cards. As far as what they do look for athletically, they tend to recruit more from triathalon/Iron Man and water polo types - endurance athletes who are comfortable in the water. They get a lot of time to look at Middies who want to go to BUD/S. They run a lot of indoc/screening events over all four years, culminating in Mini-BUD/S, and the opinions of the Team guys assigned to the Academy are given a lot of weight.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Why this seemingly major emphasis on sports? Is there a mentality that sportsmanship makes one a better officer? I can certainly see why an officer (or anyone in the military) should be in tip top shape. But, there seems to be a focus on organized sports.

Also, do football players and other varsity athletes get any edge in choosing competitive designators like pilot or seal? Perhaps what it takes to be a successful SEAL can be sowed in a student who can do well on the playing field. I don't know. Inquiring minds would like to know.
Being part of a military unit, be it a ship, grunts, or Squadron, is very akin to being on a sports team. Working together to win, striving to perform, working well with others, knowing your job, knowing others jobs, being led, coaching, leading are all common thread between sports and the USN (and plenty of other places).
 

JWL

Member
Admissions looks for candidates who are physcially fit, have demonstrated leadership, and are academically sound. Being a successful athlete generally indicates some degree of aptitude in two of those three areas.

If you mean at the Academy, it's really more an emphasis on "get out and do something active as part of a team," which is sensible in a military school. If you wanted to go out for varsity whatever, great, but you had to do some kind of extra-curricular activity, whether it was football or sailing or band or intramurals or whatever.



No. Your physical fitness grade does factor in to your order of merit, but that's only your PFA scores. No one gives a shit if you were varsity whatever when it comes to service assignment.

If anything, the varsity FB guys were often so banged-up by Firstie year that they couldn't commission in URL, much less NSW or aviation. At least amongst guys who got SEAL billets out of the Academy...basically they want high grades and super fit. I knew a guy in my class who really, really wanted to be a SEAL and was a PT animal - would swim to the Sea Bouy and back for giggles on Saturday mornings - but his grades weren't hot at all. It was made clear to him that NSW wasn't in the cards. As far as what they do look for athletically, they tend to recruit more from triathalon/Iron Man and water polo types - endurance athletes who are comfortable in the water. They get a lot of time to look at Middies who want to go to BUD/S. They run a lot of indoc/screening events over all four years, culminating in Mini-BUD/S, and the opinions of the Team guys assigned to the Academy are given a lot of weight.
Cool..thanks..I do recall reading somewhere that football players with bad knees or other injuries end up getting commissioned in the Supply Corps or something like that because of their inability to meet the physical standards for other communities.

That being said, I wonder if the academy graduates who do get a slot at BUD/S tend to come from other sports (perhaps swimming or track) assuming they also have the grades (does academic major play a part?). Or do USNA NSW candidates basically good students with great PT scores, regardless of whether they play quarterback or flute on the band?
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Cool..thanks..I do recall reading somewhere that football players with bad knees or other injuries end up getting commissioned in the Supply Corps or something like that because of their inability to meet the physical standards for other communities.

That being said, I wonder if the academy graduates who do get a slot at BUD/S tend to come from other sports (perhaps swimming or track) assuming they also have the grades (does academic major play a part?). Or do USNA NSW candidates basically good students with great PT scores, regardless of whether they play quarterback or flute on the band?

It's not about needing certain scores or grades or sports background so much as the Team guys deciding they want you. The middies who want to go NSW essentially spend four years auditioning for it. There are SEAL officers and senior enlisted assigned to the Academy in one role or another, and their opinions of whether you're a good fit for the community are the deciding factor. There are (usually) a small number of billets for mids to go to jump school and dive school over the summer, and they hold very competitive screening events to decide who goes, so that's one way they get a look at you. They run a mini-BUD/S sumemr before service assignment - again, very competitive screen events for that. By the time service assignment rolls around, they have a good sense of who they want from the mids who are serious contenders.
 
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