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USNA Curriculum

DanMa1156

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
Charles Edward said:
Why do you feel that the prior college/prep school numbers will go down?
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Because admission numbers from other sources (high school) is going up. With that said, something that has a long way from being changed, but is worth taking a look at and there are some grumblings within those who control the purses, is NAPS. Expect to continue to get about 200 people a year through there for a while, although, with each passing year of higher numbers of applicants, it will be harder and harder to defend its existence.
 
C

Charles Edward

Member
BOTE="Flash, post: 865877, member: 4402"]Not so dated, I believe he railed against it again within the last month or so.[/QUOTE]
But, is there truth that the prep schools mainly exist to support promising athletes who struggle academically, rather promising enlisted or high school students, regardless of whether they are star athletes or not?

Thanks.
 
RadicalDude

RadicalDude

Social Justice Warlord
It's a contentious issue among grads. Usually because the folks who matriculated through those programs see it as a jab at their ability or qualifications, which it sort of is. Bottom line is the vast majority of those admitted via the prep school pipeline graduate and go on to serve honorably.

Has the pendulum swung to far on athletics, their focus, etc? Maybe. It's an argument that comes up every year. I do think the author has a point about the potential NCAA violations. But it's not something anyone has the political capital or will to investigate. So it's a moot point.
 
Uncle Fester

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
It's usually an issue for people who believe the federal academies shouldn't be recruiting or boosting athletics, just on principle. And I see their point, up to a point. But the critics (like Prof Fleming's semi-annual diatribes) are pretty much always working from a theoretical or second/third hand understanding of how the academies and prep schools actually work, and are based on flawed assumptions. They don't get the relationship between the academies' Athletic Associations and active-duty command (to be fair, it's difficult for anyone to understand). Usually the arguments are about what could happen or the possible problems, not actual issues. And most of all, they assume that the academies are recruiting substandard jocks, and using the prep schools and athletic associations to sneak them through under the radar without meeting standards.

For my part, none of the recruited athletes and NAPSters I knew ever made me wonder how they got into the school. A varsity athlete at an academy can quit the team at any time without consequence...it's not like he loses a scholarship.
 
C

Charles Edward

Member
Uncle Fester said:
It's usually an issue for people who believe the federal academies shouldn't be recruiting or boosting athletics, just on principle. And I see their point, up to a point. But the critics (like Prof Fleming's semi-annual diatribes) are pretty much always working from a theoretical or second/third hand understanding of how the academies and prep schools actually work, and are based on flawed assumptions. They don't get the relationship between the academies' Athletic Associations and active-duty command (to be fair, it's difficult for anyone to understand). Usually the arguments are about what could happen or the possible problems, not actual issues. And most of all, they assume that the academies are recruiting substandard jocks, and using the prep schools and athletic associations to sneak them through under the radar without meeting standards.

For my part, none of the recruited athletes and NAPSters I knew ever made me wonder how they got into the school. A varsity athlete at an academy can quit the team at any time without consequence...it's not like he loses a scholarship.
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It seems like fair points. But, do you feel that non-athletes who have the potential of making it through the academy with the help of a year at prep school are getting their fair shake? In other words, will the prep school admit that high school senior or seaman with a B average who may not have made the cut to enter the academy directly from high school, is not a start athlete, but nonetheless is in shape and is involved in extracurricular activities?
 
Gatordev

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Charles Edward said:
It seems like fair points. But, do you feel that non-athletes who have the potential of making it through the academy with the help of a year at prep school are getting their fair shake? In other words, will the prep school admit that high school senior or seaman with a B average who may not have made the cut to enter the academy directly from high school, is not a start athlete, but nonetheless is in shape and is involved in extracurricular activities?
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Yes. There are plenty of examples of individuals who have gone to a prep school for a year and then went into the Academy. Keep in mind, Academy accessions isn't just academic, but also based on Congressional quotas. Someone who has a stellar record in a competitive district (or state) may not get picked up, but someone coming from a much less competitive district with a "sub-standard" record (keep in mind, this is relative) may get a prep spot because no one else is applying that year that has a shot.
 
Uncle Fester

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Flash said:
A recent development I'm not a fan of is that folks can get waivers for their obligated service to go directly into pro sports now instead of even doing the two year minimum of service.
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It's a perpetual argument, but it comes down to whether or not you think the government gets more of a return on having the visibility of a pro athlete than insisting on them finishing their obliserv in the usual way. Frankly given the very small number of guys who are genuinely viable pro prospects out of the academies each year, I don't know whether having the debate is worth it.

A lot of people get their obliserv waived for one reason or another every year; pro athletes are a very small fraction of that.
 
Flash

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Uncle Fester said:
It's a perpetual argument, but it comes down to whether or not you think the government gets more of a return on having the visibility of a pro athlete than insisting on them finishing their obliserv in the usual way. Frankly given the very small number of guys who are genuinely viable pro prospects out of the academies each year, I don't know whether having the debate is worth it.

A lot of people get their obliserv waived for one reason or another every year; pro athletes are a very small fraction of that.
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We had a similar debate about athletes at my school being excused from many military-related activities and then had a few 'athletes' at my first squadron get out of a lot of stuff. At its most basic it is about fairness and adds to the sense that there isn't a level playing field, while there are many instances of that in the military and life in general that doesn't mean it has to be contributed to by making yet another exception to the rule.
 
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DanMa1156

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
Charles Edward said:
It seems like fair points. But, do you feel that non-athletes who have the potential of making it through the academy with the help of a year at prep school are getting their fair shake? In other words, will the prep school admit that high school senior or seaman with a B average who may not have made the cut to enter the academy directly from high school, is not a start athlete, but nonetheless is in shape and is involved in extracurricular activities?
Click to expand...

When I was a junior MIDN, I was genuinely opposed to it and thought some of our athletes had gotten away with murder in Admissions and were real shitbags. Maybe they did back in the 2005 Admissions Department, who knows, I wasn't there. By the time I was graduating, having been an athlete (though not recruited) for 2 out of my first 4 years of the Academy, my mind was shifting more towards thinking "damn, those guys work really friggin hard. I could only do varsity sports 2 of the years because I needed more time to focus on school. They may not be getting A's, but I can't bench even within 100 pounds of 280 either, and I don't wake up before 5 almost every day for my first of 3 practices." Then I worked in admissions, and saw the line of thinking in Admissions was "if you're good enough academically, and you're good enough to be a top recruit for a D-1 school, you're doing something right and there's a value in having people around who may focus on physical fitness and teamwork than just academics," and agreed with it even more. Then I got to the fleet, and a lot of those supposed "shitbags" made some really great pilots and some fine officers, and our superiors could not have told you with much degree of accuracy who was a "shitbag" at the Academy and who was a "golden child."
 
C

Charles Edward

Member
DanMa1156 said:
When I was a junior MIDN, I was genuinely opposed to it and thought some of our athletes had gotten away with murder in Admissions and were real shitbags. Maybe they did back in the 2005 Admissions Department, who knows, I wasn't there. By the time I was graduating, having been an athlete (though not recruited) for 2 out of my first 4 years of the Academy, my mind was shifting more towards thinking "damn, those guys work really friggin hard. I could only do varsity sports 2 of the years because I needed more time to focus on school. They may not be getting A's, but I can't bench even within 100 pounds of 280 either, and I don't wake up before 5 almost every day for my first of 3 practices." Then I worked in admissions, and saw the line of thinking in Admissions was "if you're good enough academically, and you're good enough to be a top recruit for a D-1 school, you're doing something right and there's a value in having people around who may focus on physical fitness and teamwork than just academics," and agreed with it even more. Then I got to the fleet, and a lot of those supposed "shitbags" made some really great pilots and some fine officers, and our superiors could not have told you with much degree of accuracy who was a "shitbag" at the Academy and who was a "golden child."
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Thanks...what happens to those mids who were athletes in high school, but would rather focus on academics at the academy? What exactly are their extracurricular obligations? I imagine they can't be as cumbersome as playing an intercollegiate sport.
 
DanMa1156

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
Charles Edward said:
Thanks...what happens to those mids who were athletes in high school, but would rather focus on academics at the academy? What exactly are their extracurricular obligations? I imagine they can't be as cumbersome as playing an intercollegiate sport.
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It depends. I was a varsity athlete for 2 years, and then started playing intramurals. I didn't get more free time necessarily though, because I took positions within my company and Battalion that I probably couldn't have done as an athlete and I became active and eventually the President of an Academic Honor Society on campus which also took some of my time.
 
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