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USN HT's a calamity

fc2spyguy

loving my warm and comfy 214 blanket
pilot
Contributor
The 60 is NOT rigged to flat pitch at min collective.

Interesting, every time I'm doing main rotor balancing a slight increase in collective drops the q about 1%, what would cause that then if it's not an ever so slight negative pitch?
 

Hotdogs

I don’t care if I hurt your feelings
pilot
I'll just take the 90 knot timing at the bottom of the approach plate, factor in some Kentucky windage, and hope for the best. Introductory knowledge of NDB's yes - computing timing down to the last second on a Whiz Wheel, no.

No dude. I'll advocate getting rid of the whiz wheel timing when I see a Navy helo actually hit an accurate TOT. I think just knowing how fast you move over the ground (time-distance) is a skill set that is way too reliable on automation these days, and frankly a lot of people suck at it.
 

fc2spyguy

loving my warm and comfy 214 blanket
pilot
Contributor
No dude. I'll advocate getting rid of the whiz wheel timing when I see a Navy helo actually hit an accurate TOT. I think just knowing how fast you move over the ground (time-distance) is a skill set that is way too reliable on automation these days, and frankly a lot of people suck at it.

Well, the last time I flew an S model the software didn't do a TOT for you so it had to be done manually using dog houses to determine ahead/behind TOT. The H however does, and makes it a lot easier to hit.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Well, the last time I flew an S model the software didn't do a TOT for you so it had to be done manually using dog houses to determine ahead/behind TOT. The H however does, and makes it a lot easier to hit.
Really? It's been 8yrs since I flew a route for time but back then the software used to give you a TOT.
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
No dude. I'll advocate getting rid of the whiz wheel timing when I see a Navy helo actually hit an accurate TOT. I think just knowing how fast you move over the ground (time-distance) is a skill set that is way too reliable on automation these days, and frankly a lot of people suck at it.

Good point on the importance of timing in a tactical environment. Teach it there, but get rid of it in the instrument portion of the syllabus.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
I've never heard that explanation. Not saying it's wrong; just never heard it.

The 60 is NOT rigged to flat pitch at min collective...
Interesting, every time I'm doing main rotor balancing a slight increase in collective drops the q about 1%, what would cause that then if it's not an ever so slight negative pitch?
Sorry gents, imprecise on my part to call it "flat" pitch. I should have called it something like minimum pitch instead.

I'm not the right guy to answer exactly what angle the 60's blades are at with the collective full down; there's a connection there but I'm just thinking in terms of Nr during autos. Some shipboard helos' rotors make them squat; I didn't think the navalized 60 does that but I've been wrong before...

I always figured the 60 collective rigging was set to prevent NR overspeeds with min collective, a la FCF auto checks.
You could overspeed (exceed 120%) the 60B head on a hot day if you were too heavy for the maintenance auto. Otherwise, target Nr was in the high one-teens; the numbers on the chart for the 57 have Nr in the high 90~ish % range. That's a big difference.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Interesting, every time I'm doing main rotor balancing a slight increase in collective drops the q about 1%, what would cause that then if it's not an ever so slight negative pitch?

Some shipboard helos' rotors make them squat; I didn't think the navalized 60 does that but I've been wrong before...

I had been told that the Seahawk had negative pitch due to shipboard landings. I never actually saw any definitive data to support that, but... When we switched to No Rotor Brake Starts (because we're functionally retarded as a community), initially we used the Army procedure of pulling in an inch or so of collective. Then we shat anti-flaps all over the flight line. It was discovered our blades were at a different pitch,presumably, or at least rigged differently, and the procedure was adjusted to just not doing anything.

None of that proves anything, but it all jives with the rumors.
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
I always figured the 60 collective rigging was set to prevent NR overspeeds with min collective, a la FCF auto checks.
Yes. This. Although actually the collective rigging is to the MMU and also involves a blade protractor. The pitch control rod length sets auto rpm.

16.3 degrees twist on the wide chord blades. I'm not sure what it is n the A/L or Seahawk. I don't remember the blade protractor angle settings for rigging, but it is possible there is some positive and negative pitch on the 60 with the collective bottomed out.
 
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DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
Advanded Instructor here... Yes, they still use whiz wheels. As their IP I mostly make it so the guy in the back is doing fuel calculations. 2 reasons: 1. Because we need to know them. 2. Keep the guy in the back engaged and not asleep / texting, and show the student, that yes, you can shed tasks to your crew.

Yes, they also are allowed to use Ipads. IP's have discretion (as in, for the failed card, I did not let the student use an Ipad).

As much as we love the toys, I have to say, I get more frustrated at the students using tablets, not because I am a crumudgen, but for these reasons:

1. They routinely take their hands off the controls to zoom in and out.
2. They stop a VFR scan and get sucked into it deep, even if they are the PAC.
3. The ones who keep cell data on get text messages in flight.
4. A lot of them now think of knowing how to use instruments to identify or locate a fix or an airport as antiquated... (forgetting they don't have a CDI on their Ipad, so they would end up following an ever-changing heading instead of tracking a course if there are winds.)
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
The only thing worse than E-2 NFOs geeking out is helo pilots geeking out...
You can't handle the geeking out.

maxresdefault.jpg
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
... (forgetting they don't have a CDI on their Ipad, so they would end up following an ever-changing heading instead of tracking a course if there are winds.)

Homing. The word you're looking for is "homing". ;) Concur with the rest, of course.
 

xmid

Registered User
pilot
Contributor
4. A lot of them now think of knowing how to use instruments to identify or locate a fix or an airport as antiquated... (forgetting they don't have a CDI on their Ipad, so they would end up following an ever-changing heading instead of tracking a course if there are winds.)

You can get a CDI on the iPad. My 1,500 mile trip to Oshkosh in a plane with only a speedometer and an altimeter would have been terrible without it. I had a hard time convincing my old man to use it on the legs he was flying and they ended up looking more like sideways smilie faces...
 
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