Fidelity up, Obedience Down: Pothead kicked off Football Team

[phrogpilot73]

12gauge007 - Get some fleet experience and maturity before you pontificate about your academy greatness. And becareful of your ring when you fist yourself - wouldn't want to make the asshole bigger than it already is.

HAL, thanks. That's exactly what I was thinking.

 

[HuggyU2]

One man's opinion.
I'm not an Academy grad, and many of you are...
but I'm very suspect (probably unfairly) of anyone who's been an English professor at the Academy for 23 years, and whose subjects range from "aesthetics to cross-cultural perceptions, to dance" and who has never served with anyone other than cadets or the Academy staff.

But, what can I say... he's more articulate than I am. Maybe the Academies don't offer good value...
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0824/colleges-09-education-west-point-america-best-college.html

 

[zippy]

And as I read this, I realize I am becoming "that" academy guy. Great. Just the rep I need. Gun. Foot.

Nah, you already made it there. At least you are aware of it now.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

I would love to see the stats... where the hell did 12guage get 50%? The ring knockers were the minority through flight school, even flowing through with the majority of '95ers in June/July for API...

 

[P3 F0]

Yeah I'm gonna shut up now. Waiting for more flames.

If you want to try and work your way out of the flaming, try backing up your statistics with substance.

As for me, I would have liked the author to have dedicated a para or two on the cheating issue. But it sounded like he made a lot of sense, and I hope other academy grads weigh in to add to the few that already have. (I'm a ROTC grad, so I have to take the guy's word on everything)

 

[bigwill2876]

Fleming likes to pontificate, but what really does he have for comparison sakes ?

He has been at USNA for many years (20+ IIRC), never in Service, and really only shows up when somebody in the media wants a discordant viewpoint of Service Acadamies in general. Or in this case, when he has both a new publishing event and an "item" to discourse about in all his robes of excellence.

The kid got a second chance because that is what "they" do these days, he failed the second chance and is GAWN.
Just like any other Midshipman that regretted the initial decision to attend and matriculated out after refusing to sign the 2 x 7. The only thing that made this anything more than business as usual and just a bump on the log was his membership on the football team.

The general thoughts that USNA academic "standards" are lowered in regards to football is that is true EVERYWHERE, even the Harvards/Yales of the world. But if I may spin it oneway, those players spend years in practice before and thru high school and hours per day year round to do both; academic and athletic excellence (or at least what passes for excellence these days). IF they spent those 4-6 hours per day in pure academics could they have the same grades as the students that never leave the Libraries of the world ? The bottom line is that IF athletes (of all sports, not just football) were held to the same admission standards of the general student propulation, then Intercollegiate Athletics as it is now practiced would cease to exist. The pool of available people just isn't large enough to have 117 Div 1A football teams, 135 hoops, etc.

Story; Visiting Princeton on an official visit. Driving thru town with the HC in football. It is Friday night and we are passing a building with all lights ablaze and students in windows. HC, ..."that's the Library, if you get a 3.5 GPA you are awarded your own desk with a window view !" "Gee Coach that sounds great !" (Meanwhile I was at attending a military prep school and was really thinking...when do I hook up with some players and go get a cold beer.) Turned down USMA, went to UNC, then Syracuse (easy to get cold everything up there).

 

[PropAddict]

The general thoughts that USNA academic "standards" are lowered in regards to football is that is true EVERYWHERE, even the Harvards/Yales of the world. The bottom line is that IF athletes (of all sports, not just football) were held to the same admission standards of the general student propulation, then Intercollegiate Athletics as it is now practiced would cease to exist. The pool of available people just isn't large enough to have 117 Div 1A football teams, 135 hoops, etc.

And I think that's the root of the issue a lot of people are getting at: what is the point of higher education? Is it to actually teach students and breed academic excellence an intellectual discourse, or is it to organize football teams to bring in the sports dollars?

Way back when (think leather helmet days), guys played football as a fun thing to do while they were in college. They didn't go to college expressly to play football.

 

[Beevis]

I just hope that he repays the money we wasted on him.

 

[Swanee]

Fleming likes to pontificate, but what really does he have for comparison sakes ?

He has been at USNA for many years (20+ IIRC), never in Service, and really only shows up when somebody in the media wants a discordant viewpoint of Service Acadamies in general. Or in this case, when he has both a new publishing event and an "item" to discourse about in all his robes of excellence.

The kid got a second chance because that is what "they" do these days, he failed the second chance and is GAWN.
Just like any other Midshipman that regretted the initial decision to attend and matriculated out after refusing to sign the 2 x 7. The only thing that made this anything more than business as usual and just a bump on the log was his membership on the football team.

The general thoughts that USNA academic "standards" are lowered in regards to football is that is true EVERYWHERE, even the Harvards/Yales of the world. But if I may spin it oneway, those players spend years in practice before and thru high school and hours per day year round to do both; academic and athletic excellence (or at least what passes for excellence these days). IF they spent those 4-6 hours per day in pure academics could they have the same grades as the students that never leave the Libraries of the world ? The bottom line is that IF athletes (of all sports, not just football) were held to the same admission standards of the general student propulation, then Intercollegiate Athletics as it is now practiced would cease to exist. The pool of available people just isn't large enough to have 117 Div 1A football teams, 135 hoops, etc.

Story; Visiting Princeton on an official visit. Driving thru town with the HC in football. It is Friday night and we are passing a building with all lights ablaze and students in windows. HC, ..."that's the Library, if you get a 3.5 GPA you are awarded your own desk with a window view !" "Gee Coach that sounds great !" (Meanwhile I was at attending a military prep school and was really thinking...when do I hook up with some players and go get a cold beer.) Turned down USMA, went to UNC, then Syracuse (easy to get cold everything up there).

You couldn't pay me enough to go back to that freezing cesspool hellhole.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I just hope that he repays the money we wasted on him.

-1 for reading comprehension. From my earlier post in this thread...

Settle down junior. He's a sophomore, until you sign the 2 for 7 - you owe nothing. Unless you're prior enlisted...

 

[scoolbubba]

12gauge007 - Get some fleet experience and maturity before you pontificate about your academy greatness. And becareful of your ring when you fist yourself - wouldn't want to make the asshole bigger than it already is.

I can't believe I missed this thread... I'm glad I checked in to see this, thanks for making me shoot tea out my nose, Hal.

 

[bigwill2876]

"The good old days" in intercollegiate athletics/football.

I hate to give some more information, but I will give another story.

My Father had a car given to him at graduation from his military high school. He gave his roomie a ride down to Duke University where the roomie has been awarded a full football scholarship. When they arrived, way before Interstate highways, he happened upon the Duke Head Coach, who finding that Dad had also played football at the same school offered him a full schollie on the spot. Dad took the offer on the spot and notified Princeton that he would not be attending. Thus went our family into football. Three generations now have all attended on football schollies (giving that football got him into USNA ).

The point, schollies have been around for a long time, longer than probably any poster here...

 

[Daisy]

^^^ I love Duke. It's a great university.

 

[bigwill2876]

Duke; football factory;

Played at UNC for frosh year, so have poor view of Dookies.

Imagine my surprise when we played the Duke frosh (back in the days of freshman football teams) and two of my old military prep school players that went to West Point showed up on the Dook frosh roster. Both had their way at prep school paid for by AAA, attended 'beast barracks' and left after beast. Duke took them on full schollie from there.

 

[sfrankie08]

The general thoughts that USNA academic "standards" are lowered in regards to football is that is true EVERYWHERE, even the Harvards/Yales of the world.

Agree with propaddict (+1)... why should we lower standards? Especially at an institution where taxpayers pay for each and every student to attend in return for 5-8 years minimum in the military? Not the case at the Harvards/Yales.
I disagree that Intercollegiate Athletics would cease to exist, they may not remain at the same level with which they are played today, but I'd take that knowing that we were holding athletes to the same standard.