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CH-53K ground tests

SynixMan

Professional CCX Wrangler
pilot
Contributor
According to all knowing Wikipedia - USAF will have more -60s than the 160th.

Development costs are also different for 160th due to SOCOM and its acquisition authorities. Regular Army buys the 160th airframes and outfits those airframes with any piece of equipment that is not considered special operations peculiar (SO-P). SOCOM then adds on SO-P items and pays via MFP-11 funds (vice MFP-2 funds / General Purpose Force funding). Essentially, their program is spread between two separate 'services'.
Good to know and sad that SOCOM wasn't willing to pony up for 84/85 a few years ago.
 

SynixMan

Professional CCX Wrangler
pilot
Contributor
A long story behind this. Too long to discuss and too emotional to discuss, but you cannot solely blame Tampa.
I'd hold the NAE (specifically N98/CNAF/NAVAIR) mostly responsible for deciding it wasn't a game they wanted to be a part of and playing budgetary chicken with Tampa. It was something I wanted to be a part of as a first tour JO before the writing was on the wall and the detailing changed.

First beer's on me if we ever link up.
 

hscs

Registered User
pilot
I'd hold the NAE (specifically N98/CNAF/NAVAIR) mostly responsible for deciding it wasn't a game they wanted to be a part of and playing budgetary chicken with Tampa. It was something I wanted to be a part of as a first tour JO before the writing was on the wall and the detailing changed.

First beer's on me if we ever link up.
N8 vice 98 - happy to explain if we ever meet up.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
I think the power loss associated with a tandem rotor gets you into a diminishing returns scenario when you drive the weight up that high (but im no aerospace engineer) . I think the new tech and sizing of the CH-53K will far outpace anything a 47F could do. This is the right move rather than updating severely worn airframes. You can drive a humvee up the ramp and load full sized air force pallets into the K (straight from the C-5/C-17) and the avionics/electrical equipment have been completely redesigned based off of 50+ years of lessons learned from the maintenance and operational side. I'm excited to see the full potential this heavy lift assault support/transport helo has to offer. I just hope the good idea fairy doesn't appear and try to weaponize this thing, the true weapons are the dudes in the back and their gear being transported. I've also heard that the swashplate is milled from a single crystalline titanium block, that's just cool.
You're throwing away a considerable amount of power with a tail rotor too.

By most accounts, 47s have done lot better in high DA, like Afghanistan, at least partly because of what's lost by the tail rotor.

Of course there are also several different flavors of 47s out there to compare against.
 

ChuckMK23

Former H-46 Driver
pilot
Well the Israelis are trading in their 40 year old 53’s for -47F’s if that’s any omen.

The King Stallion will be a tough sell for non maritime basing.
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
Sorry to hear about the crash yesterday in California: CH-53E went down with 4 fatalities.

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-military/2018/04/04/ch-53-crash-kills-four-crew/

It has been said before, but I will say it again: please take time to review the squadron procedures in the event of an accident or worse, fatalities. (It used to be called the CACO binder, it is probably still the same.) On a personal level, make sure your SGLI, other life insurance, and will are up to date - you may even want to put together a checklist of all accounts, bills, etc so your significant other has less to do. Finally, just had a friend go through the death of a parent - and it was a mess. If your parents are reaching that stage, it would be prudent to make sure their paperwork is complete.

For those in CONUS and others out manning the line, be careful out there.
 

rotorhead1871

UH-1N.....NAS Agana, Guam....circa 1975
pilot
its been a tough 48 hours - The F-16 at Nellis, this '53, a Harrier, and ERAU's Piper Arrow this morning.
at some point in the past that Arrow must have been overstressed or some kind of non mitigated corrosion, having a wing depart the airframe is a crazy failure. ...hard to believe.
 

ChuckMK23

Former H-46 Driver
pilot
PMA-261 just released a timeline that shows the CH-53E in service until 2032. Seems funding imbalance from shooting wad over F-35B is a thing, coupled with real cost concerns over a $100 MM per copy heavy lift helicopter. Germany and Israel rapidly getting soft on potential adoption over cost concerns. Could heavy lift in the USMC be overcome-by-events? Can the Corps get by with MV-22's for all their expeditionary / amphib airlift needs?

The Kilo is a marvel of a machine - but maybe its too much, too expensive, and may be a platfrom that is made obsolete by autonomous airlift (e.g. Kaman) - pure speculation of course. But Marines have been doing the HMLA, HMM/VMM, HMM thing for 50 years - perhaps a new paradigm is in order.

Let the lobbying begin.
 
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rotorhead1871

UH-1N.....NAS Agana, Guam....circa 1975
pilot
PMA-261 just released a timeline that shows the CH-53E in service until 2032. Seems funding imbalance from shooting wad over F-35B is a thing, coupled with real cost concerns over a $100 MM per copy heavy lift helicopter. Germany and Israel rapidly getting soft on potential adoption over cost concerns. Could heavy lift in the USMC be overcome-by-events? Can the Corps get by with MV-22's for all their expeditionary / amphib airlift needs?

The Kilo is a marvel of a machine - but maybe its too much, too expensive, and may be a platfrom that is made obsolete by autonomous airlift (e.g. Kaman) - pure speculation of course. But Marines have been doing the HMLA, HMM/VMM, HMM thing for 50 years - perhaps a new paradigm is in order.

Let the lobbying begin.
sikorsky is now lockheed martin 2.0....hence F35....2.0......all cost generators will be applied...this thing is going to cost an arm and a leg.....in true LM fashion....
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
PMA-261 just released a timeline that shows the CH-53E in service until 2032. Seems funding imbalance from shooting wad over F-35B is a thing, coupled with real cost concerns over a $100 MM per copy heavy lift helicopter. Germany and Israel rapidly getting soft on potential adoption over cost concerns. Could heavy lift in the USMC be overcome-by-events? Can the Corps get by with MV-22's for all their expeditionary / amphib airlift needs?

The Kilo is a marvel of a machine - but maybe its too much, too expensive, and may be a platfrom that is made obsolete by autonomous airlift (e.g. Kaman) - pure speculation of course. But Marines have been doing the HMLA, HMM/VMM, HMM thing for 50 years - perhaps a new paradigm is in order.

Let the lobbying begin.
The newest Big Iron is scheduled to arrive at New River this week. The Osprey is a superb machine, but it can not internal a Humvee - not sure if can lift a JLTV. The Corps needs a flying semi to get everything ashore. That said, I think you are correct that the Germans and the Israelis are leaning towards the Chinook.

 
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