lucasjustdoit
New Member
Whats the difference between api and upt? does the navy operate similarly when it comes to phase ll etc things like stand up etc and the daily routine.
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UPT AND API Question
- Thread starter lucasjustdoit
- Start date
Not sure what you mean by “stand up”. API is 6 weeks of classes and water survival training done before the start of the actual flying portions of flight school. The Air Force calls all of flight school “UPT”, while the Navy breaks it down a bit more. I’m sure there’s an official name for flight school, but people usually just call it “Flight School”. It goes:
-IFS (If needed. Handful of flights in a Cessna/Piper)
-API (6 weeks of classeswater survival)
-Primary (6-ish months in the T-6)
-Intermediate (If you selected a pipeline that needs it, either intermediate T-44 for the E2/C2 pipeline, or intermediate TH-57 for the Osprey pipeline.
-Advanced (T-44, T-45, TH-57)
The biggest difference is the daily routine. For Navy students, if you aren’t on the flight schedule for the day, you aren’t required to do anything. Some squadrons make you phone muster every morning if not scheduled, which is silly. I hear the Air Force makes students come in for an entire workday, scheduled or not. The Air Force also crams it all into a year, while the Navy gets you done whenever you finish. Largely dependent on which training squadron you are assigned to, seasonal weather, maintenece issues, etc. Typically two years for the shorter pipelines, and up to three years for the longer ones.
Navy students also go through multiple “pools” between phases, where they’re waiting to class up for the next phase of flight school. For example, it’s not uncommon for students to wait multiple months between the different phases. If you managed to not catch any pools between phases, you could finish flight school in around a year, but it’s very rare these days.
Standup is a USAF pilot training thing that is kind of a ballbuster but actually a good instructional technique. The whole class is sitting down at the beginning of the day's flight schedule and they get randomly peppered with questions- which they answer by standing up and reciting the boldface, describing what switches and controls they are manipulating and how, and other details. If you get something wrong then you sit down and try again when you get called out for a different question. If you get sat down twice then your ass isn't going flying that day, you're studying instead and you'll have to make the flight up by getting double pumped on another day.
Embarrassment can be a good motivational tool, along with fear and ridicule.
Embarrassment can be a good motivational tool, along with fear and ridicule.
Interesting. No, there’s no equivalent for that in the Navy. We get quizzed on Memory Items and Limitations all throughout flight school, in and out of the airplane. Systems briefs occur mainly during the brief for that day’s flight event. Double pumps happen sometimes for us too though.
The one-on-one aspect of naval flight training is also very good. It's pretty personal when you're a student and you don't know your stuff and the cubicle feels like a very lonely place when you don't.
The downside to it is if you're behind your peers in the brief then you don't have the example of your peers right in front of your face for you to compare yourself to- both to reach out to a classmate and help them out but more importantly so you can clearly see where you need to be and what you need to do to get your shit squared away.
The downside to it is if you're behind your peers in the brief then you don't have the example of your peers right in front of your face for you to compare yourself to- both to reach out to a classmate and help them out but more importantly so you can clearly see where you need to be and what you need to do to get your shit squared away.
I don't know, there were times when I would hear another student briefing in the cubicle next door and not feel like I had everything quite as nailed as that student. It always seemed like those cubicles were pretty public.
I'll give you that... and as an IP it could be kinda distracting, not necessarily in a good way or a bad way, just that whenever I noticed one of the neighbors unraveling, the inner voice in my head would say something like, "Don't say anything inappropriate, don't say anything inappropriate, don't say any, what was I talking about again? Crap." as I lost my train of thought with my own student.
Wait- so it's not Intermediate Jet and Advanced Strike for the jet or E-2 pipeline anymore?
E2/C2 selects out of primary, does T44 first, then advanced T45. Jet students select jets out of primary, and then do both intermediate and advanced T45.
Right- there were issues with studs who landed a jet on a boat and then went to multi- cocky douchebag IPs mixed with cocky douchebag studs (who did something arguably difficult that the IPs didn't) bred hostility.
But it's still Intermediate Jet and Advanced Strike? The E2 bubbas do the intermediate syllabus ((FAM/FORM/BI/RI) then go to the boat, whereas the strike bubbas do the intermediate syllabus, then go to the advanced syllabus (bombing, LATT, tacform, ACM/BFM) and do the boat towards the end, right?
Or are they calling it all advanced?
I think you’re correct on the specific nomenclature.
If I remember though, E2/C2 studs referred to their T45 time as “advanced”, even though it was mostly the intermediate jet syllabus. I’ll let a tail hook stud speak from recent experience, though.
There were also rumors back when I was in primary that CNATRA wanted to change it back to the old way, where all tail hook studs did T45s first.
That's a bad idea.
Jet stud after qualling at the boat, "You've just done the hardest thing to do in an airplane, welcome to Naval Aviation" as a set of soft wings was slapped on their chest, high fives, spray downs and beers all around.
E2/C2 stud after qualling at the boat, "Congrats, but no wings for you, you're headed back to flight school because you're not worthy." Shitty scenario ensues.
I believe the discussion was around having students select tailhook out of primary, then go to the boat at the end of intermediate. Then grades would shake out who went strike and who went big wing. Which I think is how the process used to run, especially in the T2/TA4 days. Some of my IPs mentioned a review board for guys that wanted to go strike.
And that’s why you have the student do all the talking during the brief... so you can ease drop on the entertainment next door until your student says something dumb and zero in on whatever ridiculous thing they just said.
I found Marines crying in the debrief to be most distracting.
When I went through, we were in the first few TH from primary classes. The way it seemed to work was everyone did intermediate, then grades fell as they would, and a few people got selected to go E2/C2. Specifically, if you got to go to the ONAV brief (the first event of advanced) you officially weren't going E2/C2. If you didn't, and you probably already knew, you were going VFR direct to FCLPs and then the boat......and then T-44's. More to the point, the trip to the boat happened after intermediate in either case......very quickly if ID'd for props, and towards the end of advanced if going jets/strike.