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Career Reflections by Pickle

Max the Mad Russian

Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Well, let's improve the situation by returning to a roots.

Would someone with MPRA background tell me whether there been a cases when a Tailhook pointy nose pilots (naval aviators, not NFOs who I suppose have generally more freedom to change the community ) with carrier landings somehow found themselves within VP squadrons to fly Orions? How did they feel? Was it relaxing experience or, given "SWO of NavAir", the hard times for them?
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
Well, let's improve the situation by returning to a roots.

Would someone with MPRA background tell me whether there been a cases when a Tailhook pointy nose pilots (naval aviators, not NFOs who I suppose have generally more freedom to change the community ) with carrier landings somehow found themselves within VP squadrons to fly Orions? How did they feel? Was it relaxing experience or, given "SWO of NavAir", the hard times for them?

I worked as an LNO to a staff with a Hornet guy who apparently had to convert to VP for medical reasons. He bitched endlessly about VP. The only thing he hated on more was SWO.
 

Max the Mad Russian

Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
He bitched endlessly about VP

Thanks. But he didn't have personal experience then, probably. When one's afraid, this is usually based on someone else's opinion. What's wrong with such transfer? Long concrete runaways, well established NASs, no needs to be deployed on an iron box and land on its dumb end, essentially civilian airplane with good accomodation, etc. Was SWO-like relationships the only reason for bitching in his opinion?
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Well, let's improve the situation by returning to a roots.

Would someone with MPRA background tell me whether there been a cases when a Tailhook pointy nose pilots (naval aviators, not NFOs who I suppose have generally more freedom to change the community ) with carrier landings somehow found themselves within VP squadrons to fly Orions? How did they feel? Was it relaxing experience or, given "SWO of NavAir", the hard times for them?
I worked with an VS pilot who went VP when the S-3 went away. He seemed to have assimilated just fine; he was deeply concerned about things like IFR flight plans on VFR days, zipper height, and the general slovenly nature of help pilots.
 

Max the Mad Russian

Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
It's like a gulag with the added risk of drowning.


Ah. Got it. This is Russian Navy guided missile cruiser. Floating prison.

I worked with an VS pilot who went VP when the S-3 went away. He seemed to have assimilated just fine; he was deeply concerned about things like IFR flight plans on VFR days, zipper height, and the general slovenly nature of help pilots.

Thanks. Same NFO-dominated community. Taught its pilots to be polite:D
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I worked as an LNO to a staff with a Hornet guy who apparently had to convert to VP for medical reasons. He bitched endlessly about VP. The only thing he hated on more was SWO.

We had quite a few tailhook types in my first squadron, mainly former A-6 and ES-3/EA-3 types but one F-14 as well, flying EP-3's. The A-6 and ES-3 communities went away so they had to find a home, the F-14 guy was there for medical reasons. At the time VQ wasn't as uptight as VP and was very accommodating aviators who transitioned from other communities, with plenty who later made CO.

As for how they liked it, none of them were all that happy about the flying itself (pretty boring) but were happy with the hours (A LOT) and the lack of adult supervision when deployed (no CO, XO and rarely DH's).
 

FrankTheTank

Professional Pot Stirrer
pilot
We had quite a few tailhook types in my first squadron, mainly former A-6 and ES-3/EA-3 types but one F-14 as well, flying EP-3's. The A-6 and ES-3 communities went away so they had to find a home, the F-14 guy was there for medical reasons. At the time VQ wasn't as uptight as VP and was very accommodating aviators who transitioned from other communities, with plenty who later made CO.

As for how they liked it, none of them were all that happy about the flying itself (pretty boring) but were happy with the hours (A LOT) and the lack of adult supervision when deployed (no CO, XO and rarely DH's).
I think I know the F-14 dude and it wasn’t medical reason! He’s a good guy nonetheless..
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
In my first VP squadron, we had a former A-7 driver who they found out was partially color blind after a few near ramp strikes in his first cruise. They decided it was safer for all for him to fly only in multi-piloted aircraft. He was actually a pretty good stick when not having to fly the ball...
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I think I know the F-14 dude and it wasn’t medical reason! He’s a good guy nonetheless..

The one I know was definitely medical, it took him ~2-3 years to get cleared to just fly at all after getting downed and shortly after showing up he was promoted to O-4. I know of one other that had been in the F-14 RAG but didn't finish, he did like to let folks know he flew Tomcats though....
 

FrankTheTank

Professional Pot Stirrer
pilot
The one I know was definitely medical, it took him ~2-3 years to get cleared to just fly at all after getting downed and shortly after showing up he was promoted to O-4. I know of one other that had been in the F-14 RAG but didn't finish, he did like to let folks know he flew Tomcats though....
I’m talking about the second dude..
 

picklesuit

Dirty Hinge
pilot
Contributor
Reflecting back on the latest tour...here is some ProDev for future DH’s (and JOPA if they care)...

I left the last squadron Nov 1st. Did 28 of the assigned 30 months. Left on a #2 EP (x2) as a 10 month MO to a #1 EP 5 month OPSO. I earned it (when you are Det OIC and the FBO tows your plane into a hangar, you will pay the piper) so no real hurt feelings. I will be a terminal O-5, assuming I made the cut last week, and be getting the phone call from the Admiral about ACSB FOSx2 a year and a week from now.

Just rolled 17 years, so will make retirement, assuming I don’t get a DUI or sleep with the help.

Things I’d do different (just speaking to DH tour):

Spend more time/effort on some of the administrative minutiae related to my specific jobs as DH...MPA bit me in the ass, I didn’t have a great handle on the programs and the whole process that QA runs, so trusted my CPO/MCO/MMCO too much, should’ve been more suspicious of “it’s all good Sir”...

Learn to hide my opinions/emotions better. I torched a few people, and pissed off a few seniors by not learning how to package my input better. I could’ve gotten the point across better, and had better effects, with a little diplomacy.

Push harder for my own career. I showed up without being qualified as an IP in MPRA (VT only) and was still scarred from the process in 2011/12 when I almost lost my wife. Had a great Skipper explain to me there was no way he could make someone the #1 without that instructor ticket...I had some notion I’d be taking a slot from a JO if I pushed for a chance to get qualified, but that was probably not entirely accurate. I was honestly just too chicken to work that hard and risk failing, publicly, again and I copped an easy out.

Take risk at the appropriate level: I was waaay too comfortable making risk decisions at my level that weren’t mine to make, right up until I had to call the Skipper and explain why we had a plane crunched into a hangar in Chile. I briefed the CDRE that a khaki supervisor would oversee every evolution involving plane towing, and let myself get suckered into complacency when 35/35 went well...I leaned too far forward and ended my career that day...only positive was I was able to shield the MX CPO on the det by taking full responsibility for the decision to not have either of us there.

Things I would do again: Walk out of work at 1600 every day I wasn’t scheduled beyond that point. I made it a habit to walk the fuck out of there and put my family first this tour, and it paid off. I saw other guys putting in hours they didn’t need to, because that’s what they saw their DH’s do, and I wasn’t playing that game.

Push back on the foolish nonsense from the PC police and the small band of whiners in my squadron. There is always a vocal troupe of several JO’s that will fight you on things. Realize they will do that to everyone, power through. There is a cancel-culture/passive-aggressive mindset endemic to a small portion of the current generation. They will run straight to the XO and Skipper, who will have your back as long as you have good intentions and can defend your actions/words.

Reach out to peers/mentors. See the discussion from 2019 regarding a chickenshit JO and CRM in this thread. It made it to the desk of my Skipper (literally printouts from AW’s on his desk) and the safety survey, on which I had 17 call outs by name. I had a very uncomfortable discussion with the boss about all of my decisions to that point, all of which boiled down to CRM and personal inter-communication. Having listened to people here, and other mentors via phone/text, I’d already worked on that deficiency in my repertoire, and kept the trust of the boss.

Finally, communicate openly and directly with your CO/XO. As a DH, you are expected to be the voice of the squadron to them, but also the voice to the squadron, from them. You cannot get atmospherics, intentions, and guidance hiding in your office or avoiding tough questions. Be willing to ask the tough questions so you have THEIR answer when you get asked those very questions from your Sailors.

I loved my tour as DH, I flew over 600 hours, crossing the 3000 hour mark, I got to make some great friends, and keep those great friends. The OPSO who beat me to the #1 did so fair and square, and neither one of us lost respect or friendship over it, because we both put the squadron and our friendship ahead of our careers. That’s not to say we never argued, but we always talked it out and had a drink.

I’m happily churning away at my staff job, and miss the squadron (I’ve brought “flight-suit Friday” to my directorate) but there is definitely a reason that tour as a DH is so short...it’s a sprint-paced marathon.

Happy to answer questions, hope this helps...

BT BT

Mods, any chance we can change the name of the threads to “Career Reflections by Pickle”?
 
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