Should I stay or should I go? Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying And Love HSC.

[Pags]

I get what you’re saying. However, based on your answer becomes if vertrep/PG are the de facto missions and everyone knows it, why are the IPs in Whiting telling the studs information to the contrary? After all, the de facto missions are common knowledge.

Because the community trains for other missions and sells itself as such. HSC guys spend a lot of time training to missions that they'll never do which makes guys in the community pick sides. You're either all in on tactics regardless of whether you'll ever do it or you're bitter and hate the fact that you spend all your time at home training for tactics and then when deployed fly nothing but right hand turns off of mom.

Imagine if you were a jet guy and you spent all your workups getting LVL III/IV and the pain of SFARP and AWF and workups and then when deployed only flew tanker missions for other people. And I mean the whole squadron flew tanker missions. Sure you had these jets with gucci mission systems and capabilities but all anyone wanted you to do was to turn circles over mom and pass gas. Nothing else. Except maybe occasionally flying a random VIP to somewhere else so he can yell at you for being late. If that were the case you too might wonder why you put all that work in to getting your wings and quals and why exactly you're putting up with deployment just to turn circles.

 

[RedFive]

Did anyone else notice they revealed the answer to the age old question, "What % get jets?"!!!

"Specifically, within the Navy, the influx of airline hiring is exacerbating a staffing shortage within its fighter pilot community, which makes up about 33 percent of its pilot force."

This is NOT correct. The article also states "26 percent of Navy fighter pilot positions are unfilled." Therefore, only 74% of the 33% get jets, the rest go unfilled if the article is to be believed.

As such, the age old question of "What % get jets?" is 24.42%.

 

[DanMa1156]

I get what you’re saying. However, based on your answer becomes if vertrep/PG are the de facto missions and everyone knows it, why are the IPs in Whiting telling the studs information to the contrary? After all, the de facto missions are common knowledge.

I think the IPs at Whiting are very honest about what HSC does and what it trains to do. However, the IPs aren't the only exposure there - at the NHA Fleet Fly In the commodores get together with everyone too at panels. With that said, I do understand why we train to those missions. I don't understand why we (HSC) keeps grasping at other ones like Firescout and other seemingly random "tactical" missions.

Also, not saying right or wrong, but when asking what the primary missions were to FRS IPs, upon answering "Search and Rescue, Logistics..." the Commodore made said LT IP do pushups (he joined him in fairness!) for answering those as primary missions. All I'm saying is this is the level of the Commodores trying to avoid being labeled as that - I suspect because if we get labled only with those missions, they don't see HSC sticking around long term - as they say - "any helicopter pilot can do those missions."

 

[DanMa1156]

Well says whomever is ordering all the Block III MH-60S' - my question to any Flag would be" If PG and VERTREP are the 80% core mission, why not just have a bunch of BLOCK I's..."

Also... this.

 

[Hair Warrior]

That is false.

Okay. They don’t transport SEALs if the mission calls for it? A HSC guy told me he transported SEALs in his Sierra while OCONUS.

 

[Gatordev]

Okay. They don’t transport SEALs if the mission calls for it? A HSC guy told me he transported SEALs in his Sierra while OCONUS.

EVERYONE transports SEALs. Having SEALs on board doesn't make it CSAR. It can still be NSW support, but that's not specific to HSC.

At the end of the day, the way the current construct is, the Navy, specifically the CVW, needs assets to move around and do SCAR. A large majority of SCAR is just AR, but the Romeos can't cover everything. Welcome to the exciting world of SSC. If someone is needed to be a shooter, even if no actual ordnance leaves the rail, again, the Romeos can't cover everything and aren't armed well enough to be super effective.

So, since the community's priorities come from the CDREs (with input from the CVWs and Fleets), that's where the acquisition drive is going to come from (ie, BLK IIIs). Yes, this is a simplified flow of what happens, but it boils it down to the stakeholders and why there are the requirements that there are.

 

[Python]

Because the community trains for other missions and sells itself as such. HSC guys spend a lot of time training to missions that they'll never do which makes guys in the community pick sides. You're either all in on tactics regardless of whether you'll ever do it or you're bitter and hate the fact that you spend all your time at home training for tactics and then when deployed fly nothing but right hand turns off of mom.

Imagine if you were a jet guy and you spent all your workups getting LVL III/IV and the pain of SFARP and AWF and workups and then when deployed only flew tanker missions for other people. And I mean the whole squadron flew tanker missions. Sure you had these jets with gucci mission systems and capabilities but all anyone wanted you to do was to turn circles over mom and pass gas. Nothing else. Except maybe occasionally flying a random VIP to somewhere else so he can yell at you for being late. If that were the case you too might wonder why you put all that work in to getting your wings and quals and why exactly you're putting up with deployment just to turn circles.

Good explanation. Thanks.

 

[squorch2]

Kill HSC - replace it with augmented CVW HSM squadrons (return of HS!) or contracted RW.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Is there a Navy equivalent of the Army’s 160th?

 

[BarryD]

Is there a Navy equivalent of the Army’s 160th?

Used to be HSC-84 and 85. 85s still around flying H-60 Hotels, don’t know to what extent they’re supporting NSW these days though. People have been trying to get rid of them for ages, and succeeded with 84 a few years back.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Used to be HSC-84 and 85. 85s still around flying H-60 Hotels, don’t know to what extent they’re supporting NSW these days though. People have been trying to get rid of them for ages, and succeeded with 84 a few years back.

I believe that both AFSOC CV-22’s and 160th SOAR are well versed in USN shipboard ops...meaning you will likely see those assets deployed from our decks before you’ll see HSC tasked on a specialized high value/high risk mission...

 

[Pags]

Okay. They don’t transport SEALs if the mission calls for it? A HSC guy told me he transported SEALs in his Sierra while OCONUS.

Transported or inserted? Real world ops or exercise? If you're transporting guys then it's just another trip in the minivan taking the kids to the pool.

While deployed OCONUS to the middle East I fastroped Marines from a Sierra. That's not a lie. But that doesn't mean I was in the shit dropping off the guys who killed Bin Laden. The details are I was in Bahrain and I was doing daytime elevators for a bunch of FAST Marines in a MOUT town. Which means I was doing good deal training that wasn't realistic training for me. It was a nice way to burn a bag of gas and a nice break from PMC and FCFs but there was a huge gap between me and the 160th.

 

[thump]

I think the IPs at Whiting are very honest about what HSC does and what it trains to do. However, the IPs aren't the only exposure there - at the NHA Fleet Fly In the commodores get together with everyone too at panels. With that said, I do understand why we train to those missions. I don't understand why we (HSC) keeps grasping at other ones like Firescout and other seemingly random "tactical" missions.

There's a lot to be said for expectations. Ensign Timmy in the HTs can ask his HSC IP, "Show me cool HSC stuff!" and the syllabus already has low levels, LZs/UPLs/whatever the kids call it these days, etc. ENS Timmy says "Show me cool Romeo stuff!" - you're not gonna tune up the TH-57's sweet radar/ESM/ASW suite. Right or wrong a lot of HSC nuggets show up to the Fleet with these expectations. HSM signed up for nerd shit and knows it. Happiness = Reality - Expectations.

Within the "high end fight" that's the all the rage these days, HSC doesn't bring a lot to the table. Sure, LOG/SAR, AR of opportunity, absolutely. But you don't need a squadron full of Block III's and PR/SOF level IV's to do that.

 

[BarryD]

This is starting to remind be of the beautiful CSAR Threadjack from awhile back.

 

[Jim123]

This is starting to remind be of the beautiful CSAR Threadjack from awhile back.

If it's a thread about hauling ass and trash then it should be another bidet threadjack instead?