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Would you want to be the last guy selected for an airframe?

Rugby_Guy

Rugby_Guy

Livin on a Prayer
pilot
So, we are nearing the end of the service life for F18s and Harriers and on the horizon, someone will be the last SNA to select those platforms. From a career standpoint, how would that play out? He would always, forever, be the most junior guy in his MOS (until he switched platforms). Would this make promotions difficult later on? Would it be hard to get quals in a platform that is going away? How has life been for the last Prowler guys? If you could, would you chose to be last cat 1 F18 guy over being another F35 guy?
 
Rugby_Guy said:
So, we are nearing the end of the service life for F18s and Harriers and on the horizon, someone will be the last SNA to select those platforms. From a career standpoint, how would that play out? He would always, forever, be the most junior guy in his MOS (until he switched platforms). Would this make promotions difficult later on? Would it be hard to get quals in a platform that is going away? How has life been for the last Prowler guys? If you could, would you chose to be last cat 1 F18 guy over being another F35 guy?
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Go where the funding and flight hours are.

Intentionally going to a dying community lacks foresight.

I wouldn’t compare prowler sundown to the hornet sundown... the hornet community’s has been the Marine Corps sacrificial lamb for a decade. The prowler community had a joint mission requirement that the Marine Corps couldn’t stop supporting but no one has blinked an eye as hornet squadrons were shut down and the remaining squadrons were underfunded.

There’s a very real chance folks get effed career wise by the transitions, but at least the airlines are hiring when it doesn’t work out.
 
Farva01 said:
My flight school roommate was the last Tomcat guy. He is the XO of a Rhino squadron now. Not a big deal.
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The Marines have historically done a shitty job of managing T/M/S sundowning from an aircrew perspective. They’re not above hanging their people out to dry, because at their core, they don’t give a shit about their people.
 
Farva01 said:
My flight school roommate was the last Tomcat guy. He is the XO of a Rhino squadron now. Not a big deal.
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Just because it worked out for him doesn’t mean it will for everyone else.

Unless things change dramatically, if you aren’t going to OIR or the boat you are not going to fly a lot in the Hornet.

Initial fleet tours were lengthened to 5 years because we aren’t capable of getting aircrew the qualifications the fleet needs in a normal three your first tour and retaining people once they do get quals. That should tell you a lot.

Transition/conversion was lengthened to five years as well, and that’s after the completion of training.

Someone said go where the flight hours and money are, and they are right. The flight hours aren’t in the Hornet or F-35 right now, but the F-35 will only get healthier. The money definitely isn’t in the Hornet.

If you have an opportunity to go to a joint platform that the USAF is the biggest operator of... that’s common sense. You will benefit from alot of the goods of the Air Force as they learn how to fight and upgrade the airplane.

For where you’re at you should be doing everything you can to go to the F-35.
 
Brett327 said:
The Marines have historically done a shitty job of managing T/M/S sundowning from an aircrew perspective. They’re not above hanging their people out to dry, because at their core, they don’t give a shit about their people.
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Every TMS transition I have been privy to witness (Phrog - Osprey, N-Y, W-Z), manpower has routinely punted into the stands. Some because they didn’t produce enough new aircrew in the TMS, they didn’t have enough aircrew existing to support a full transition or conversion, or because they said uhh yeah we don’t need any of you anymore and here’s your 2P for your 0-4/0-5 board.
Some communities were better about protecting their dudes from bullshit, but others not so much.
 
Rugby_Guy said:
So, we are nearing the end of the service life for F18s and Harriers and on the horizon, someone will be the last SNA to select those platforms. From a career standpoint, how would that play out? He would always, forever, be the most junior guy in his MOS (until he switched platforms). Would this make promotions difficult later on? Would it be hard to get quals in a platform that is going away? How has life been for the last Prowler guys? If you could, would you chose to be last cat 1 F18 guy over being another F35 guy?
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First of all, if you’re in flight school now you’re not even close to being the last harrier or hornet pilot. Personally I’d choose based on mission, duty station, and health of the fleet.

Prowler dudes at the end of the line had lots of opportunities to switch to F-35. As for what Brett said, of course the Marine Corps doesn’t give a shit about you. Neither does the Navy.
 
Rugby_Guy said:
How has life been for the last Prowler guys?
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A lot of Ps were passed out on the O-4 board last year for the Prowler pilots who did everything right to get promoted. Those guys are pretty much left holding the bag as they watch everyone kind of cast them off. From what I hear the F-35 doesn't need more O-4s transitioning in, they're really top heavy in those squadrons as it is.

The Marine Corps doesn't do manning well, and they don't care about you already- even less so if you don't have much usefulness left.

Some of those guys are going to die on the vine in VT land, some of them are going to die on the vine in the Prowler, or filling a job at the MAG. A few of them are going to the UAV world. Most of them are just getting out, whether by choice or not.
 
whitesoxnation said:
Just because it worked out for him doesn’t mean it will for everyone else.

Unless things change dramatically, if you aren’t going to OIR or the boat you are not going to fly a lot in the Hornet.

Initial fleet tours were lengthened to 5 years because we aren’t capable of getting aircrew the qualifications the fleet needs in a normal three your first tour and retaining people once they do get quals. That should tell you a lot.

Transition/conversion was lengthened to five years as well, and that’s after the completion of training.

Someone said go where the flight hours and money are, and they are right. The flight hours aren’t in the Hornet or F-35 right now, but the F-35 will only get healthier. The money definitely isn’t in the Hornet.

If you have an opportunity to go to a joint platform that the USAF is the biggest operator of... that’s common sense. You will benefit from alot of the goods of the Air Force as they learn how to fight and upgrade the airplane.

For where you’re at you should be doing everything you can to go to the F-35.
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I know a guy out of Beaufort who is a -35B IP, having come there from Prowlers at CP only in the past couple of years. He's convinced it's the safest career move he's ever made.
 
Skywalker said:
I know a guy out of Beaufort who is a -35B IP, having come there from Prowlers at CP only in the past couple of years. He's convinced it's the safest career move he's ever made.
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Yes and no. Better than having no jet? Yes, obviously. Good for making command? Not really, with a ridiculous number of patch wearing majors in that community.
 
Treetop Flyer said:
Yes and no. Better than having no jet? Yes, obviously. Good for making command? Not really, with a ridiculous number of patch wearing majors in that community.
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I think he's going for "fly until they won't let me anymore," based off of my conversations with him.
 
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